Laguna Seca turn 9
#1
Laguna Seca turn 9
Does using all of the exit of turn 9, including the exit curbing, have a significant benefit for lap times?
The camber falls away half way between the apex and the outside edge of the road. Also, the exit curbing is slippery. So, it seems to me that since there isn't much grip on the exit, there isn't much time to be gained in using the whole of the track.
Most of the pro drivers I've watched don't use all of the exit on that corner. That said, I have heard a former Skip Barber instructor stating that there is time to be gained in this corner if you use all of the exit. Also, Ross Bentley says that he would use even the exit curbing if he was going for a qualifying lap.
Personally, I love using all of the track on exit and hearing my outside tires on the exit curbing. But I don't think it does much for lap times.
What do you guys think? Has anyone ever studied their data closely in this corner?
The camber falls away half way between the apex and the outside edge of the road. Also, the exit curbing is slippery. So, it seems to me that since there isn't much grip on the exit, there isn't much time to be gained in using the whole of the track.
Most of the pro drivers I've watched don't use all of the exit on that corner. That said, I have heard a former Skip Barber instructor stating that there is time to be gained in this corner if you use all of the exit. Also, Ross Bentley says that he would use even the exit curbing if he was going for a qualifying lap.
Personally, I love using all of the track on exit and hearing my outside tires on the exit curbing. But I don't think it does much for lap times.
What do you guys think? Has anyone ever studied their data closely in this corner?
#2
Good question. Here are my observations. I'm curious what others with more experience here think.
I've improved my lap times by almost using all the track at exit at T9. In my fairly low powered car, I have to consciously get to full throttle much sooner than I think I should at T9 so the car will naturally wash out to the right. All other things being equal, I've found I'm carrying a lot more speed and positioned more inside coming into the T10 breaking zone than the other cars, so it's become a good place for me to pass under braking.
The downside to this approach is that it's harder for me to setup T10. There's a smaller straight between T9-10 than T10-11, so I wonder if some compromise exit of T9 to better optimize T10?
I've improved my lap times by almost using all the track at exit at T9. In my fairly low powered car, I have to consciously get to full throttle much sooner than I think I should at T9 so the car will naturally wash out to the right. All other things being equal, I've found I'm carrying a lot more speed and positioned more inside coming into the T10 breaking zone than the other cars, so it's become a good place for me to pass under braking.
The downside to this approach is that it's harder for me to setup T10. There's a smaller straight between T9-10 than T10-11, so I wonder if some compromise exit of T9 to better optimize T10?
#3
I always use all the track out at T9. I use the exit curbing as a buffer incase I slide out a little wide... I generally don't aim to use it, except in qualifying or if I'm trying to get a run on somebody for an overtake into T11.
-mike
-mike
#4
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Agreed. If you don't reach or lightly use the exit curb at T9, you're holding the apex too long or not going quickly enough. That said, there have been some knarly offs from people AIMING for that, sliding wide and going off. Either to the right or hooking back left.
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#5
You need to use the curbing of the exit. if you are not, you are sandbagging the turn. Most pros have cars that are SO capable and are not using the car to its full extent in this area if driving narrow. its as important as hitting the apex . sure many dont , but it doesnt make it the fastest way around the track.
#6
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Does using all of the exit of turn 9, including the exit curbing, have a significant benefit for lap times?
I have heard a former Skip Barber instructor stating that there is time to be gained in this corner if you use all of the exit. Also, Ross Bentley says that he would use even the exit curbing if he was going for a qualifying lap.
Has anyone ever studied their data closely in this corner?
I have heard a former Skip Barber instructor stating that there is time to be gained in this corner if you use all of the exit. Also, Ross Bentley says that he would use even the exit curbing if he was going for a qualifying lap.
Has anyone ever studied their data closely in this corner?
Part of the idea is that you are "carried" out due to choosing the optimal speed (or adding to it, proactively and incrementally) for the corner, approaching, at and coming away from the inside curbing.
No, you DON'T aim for it nor should you have to steer towards it. There's enough time and distance in most cars to cross diagonally for the optimal entry into T10.
#7
T9, is a great turn, I love it. being downhill, i feel like I have a more powerfull car
Last edited by GVA-SFO; 08-18-2018 at 05:09 AM.
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#8
Good question. Here are my observations. I'm curious what others with more experience here think.
I've improved my lap times by almost using all the track at exit at T9. In my fairly low powered car, I have to consciously get to full throttle much sooner than I think I should at T9 so the car will naturally wash out to the right. All other things being equal, I've found I'm carrying a lot more speed and positioned more inside coming into the T10 breaking zone than the other cars, so it's become a good place for me to pass under braking.
The downside to this approach is that it's harder for me to setup T10. There's a smaller straight between T9-10 than T10-11, so I wonder if some compromise exit of T9 to better optimize T10?
I've improved my lap times by almost using all the track at exit at T9. In my fairly low powered car, I have to consciously get to full throttle much sooner than I think I should at T9 so the car will naturally wash out to the right. All other things being equal, I've found I'm carrying a lot more speed and positioned more inside coming into the T10 breaking zone than the other cars, so it's become a good place for me to pass under braking.
The downside to this approach is that it's harder for me to setup T10. There's a smaller straight between T9-10 than T10-11, so I wonder if some compromise exit of T9 to better optimize T10?
#11
Won't ever say that I'm "ideal" - but I think my line is pretty decent and I was in the 1:31s which was within about 0.5 secs of pros (e.g. Jorg Bergmeister, James Sofronas, etc) in similar cars on the same track same day. A couple clean traffic free laps at the beginning of this video.
#13
Some great suggestions here, some not so great. Not all cars are the same, and none of them are perfect objects of physics.
If the goal is to acquire experience and develop skill to fully utilize a car (ranging from a high performance car to a dedicated race car) at Laguna Seca, AND you are amenable to engaging experts with local knowledge, I think Thomas Merrill might be a great choice:
http://thomasmerrillms.com/index.php?/site/
I have not engaged him as a coach but...
His parents are long time PCA members and his father still races a Spec 911. (His father was the President of Friends of Laguna Seca).
I have known him since my first visit to Laguna with the PCA in 1995. The Merills hosted our Saturday Night part at their nearby ranch and it was epic. They still are in the ranching business in the area near the track.
Thomas has helped quite a few Porsche drivers/racers I know.
Internet perspective can be helpful.
Coaching may also be helpful, depending on goals.
In this case, Thomas may be uniquely positioned since he practically grew up there. After recently reviewing a video of him driving a friend's 911 during a DE-based coaching session, I am convinced the he could pilot a little red wagon around there at record speeds.
If the goal is to acquire experience and develop skill to fully utilize a car (ranging from a high performance car to a dedicated race car) at Laguna Seca, AND you are amenable to engaging experts with local knowledge, I think Thomas Merrill might be a great choice:
http://thomasmerrillms.com/index.php?/site/
I have not engaged him as a coach but...
His parents are long time PCA members and his father still races a Spec 911. (His father was the President of Friends of Laguna Seca).
I have known him since my first visit to Laguna with the PCA in 1995. The Merills hosted our Saturday Night part at their nearby ranch and it was epic. They still are in the ranching business in the area near the track.
Thomas has helped quite a few Porsche drivers/racers I know.
Internet perspective can be helpful.
Coaching may also be helpful, depending on goals.
In this case, Thomas may be uniquely positioned since he practically grew up there. After recently reviewing a video of him driving a friend's 911 during a DE-based coaching session, I am convinced the he could pilot a little red wagon around there at record speeds.
#14
Some great suggestions here, some not so great. Not all cars are the same, and none of them are perfect objects of physics.
In this case, Thomas may be uniquely positioned since he practically grew up there. After recently reviewing a video of him driving a friend's 911 during a DE-based coaching session, I am convinced the he could pilot a little red wagon around there at record speeds.
In this case, Thomas may be uniquely positioned since he practically grew up there. After recently reviewing a video of him driving a friend's 911 during a DE-based coaching session, I am convinced the he could pilot a little red wagon around there at record speeds.
#15
Some great suggestions here, some not so great. Not all cars are the same, and none of them are perfect objects of physics.
If the goal is to acquire experience and develop skill to fully utilize a car (ranging from a high performance car to a dedicated race car) at Laguna Seca, AND you are amenable to engaging experts with local knowledge, I think Thomas Merrill might be a great choice:
http://thomasmerrillms.com/index.php?/site/
Thomas has helped quite a few Porsche drivers/racers I know.
Internet perspective can be helpful.
Coaching may also be helpful, depending on goals.
In this case, Thomas may be uniquely positioned since he practically grew up there. After recently reviewing a video of him driving a friend's 911 during a DE-based coaching session, I am convinced the he could pilot a little red wagon around there at record speeds.
If the goal is to acquire experience and develop skill to fully utilize a car (ranging from a high performance car to a dedicated race car) at Laguna Seca, AND you are amenable to engaging experts with local knowledge, I think Thomas Merrill might be a great choice:
http://thomasmerrillms.com/index.php?/site/
Thomas has helped quite a few Porsche drivers/racers I know.
Internet perspective can be helpful.
Coaching may also be helpful, depending on goals.
In this case, Thomas may be uniquely positioned since he practically grew up there. After recently reviewing a video of him driving a friend's 911 during a DE-based coaching session, I am convinced the he could pilot a little red wagon around there at record speeds.