OpenTrack

You're spot on with your analysis of the insurance part of that answer. Almost all personal umbrella policies today are what is called "follow form". That means that the umbrella follows the underlying coverage. If there is no underlying coverage, there is no umbrella coverage.

Can't speak to the PCA/SCCA.

JPS

So what's the net on what you are providing over Lockton + PCA?
If I got a 3 day event coverage at Lockton vs you for vehicle only, it's a touch cheaper. But if I add the $1 or 2MM, it is significantly more expensive, just as a data point.
Thanks for offering insurance and answering the Qs so far.

OpenTrack

fatbillybob

So are you saying Open track's required policy with the Track owner does not or never listed drivers as "additional insureds?" Therefore to now have liability protection at an Open Track event the driver is required to buy his own liability via the Open Track sign-up?

bpu699

Why is it so difficult to learn exactly what scca/pca/fca cover? Its seems like that's the critical question, before you start addressing a secondary policy... There is a dozen threads on this...

If, as a driver, you are "paying" for the PCA coverage - which in fact you are, as its part of the entrance fee - then one would think they should give you a clear explanation of what's covered... No?I emailed PCA a year or two ago, no reply. Not even a generic email.

I know PCA excludes track damage... SCCA doesn't AFAIK. I know a couple folks that crashed at SCCA events hitting walls/barriers and never got a bill...

SAE911

Just a note to say I have worked with Opentrack for two years. Started out with collision policy as they didn't have liability. Went elsewhere for liability. Chose them because they will cover high stated value vehicles and their cost to cover additional cars is very reasonable. We have three cars covered along with additional drivers (I own the cars). I asked Opentrack for the last year or so to find a solution for liability and they have done so. I found their prices competitive. I consolidated my business with them I have found them to be very helpful from a customer support standpoint. Thankfully, I haven't had to test the coverage. This is a sticky issue which is hard to get clear answers on. I decided for me and my family the best bet was not to chance coverages by other organizations. I consider it the "cost to play".

Matt Romanowski

Here is what PCA has published about their event insurance

bpu699

The coverage is very murky... from the same PCA site:
There are certain types of injury and damage that are not covered under the event liability coverage.

The policy does not provide coverage for damage to automobiles participating in the events and does

not provide coverage for the repair/replacement of structures damaged at the event location during

the event. The policy does not provide coverage for “spectator events.” PCA only holds non-spectator

events. Everyone who enters the premises of a PCA moving car event should be a driver, invited

guest of a driver, PCA member, premises official, volunteer worker, etc., and should have signed the

appropriate Release and Waiver. This makes them participants and not spectators. A Region should

never charge admission to the public to view a PCA event inasmuch




So, damage to other cars isn't covered. I get it, the waiver says as much. But, what happens when your 10k$ car hits the 500k$ GT, or your car dumps oil. Now, the waiver says everyone is on their own and each person assumed all risk. Great. But what happens if you get sued by the guy in the 500k car and lose?

Does the liability cover that, or not? Is the exclusionary language only applying to your car (ie. You crash, obviously they don't pay for it)? Or, does it apply to other cars that get damaged?

Does the PCA pay for the lawyer to defend you, even though property damage isn't covered?

What if you hit a corner worker?

What if you hit a track employee (they didn't sign waivers)?

What if you flip over into the stands and hit bystanders? (unlikely, I know)

Is that covered?

Banango

When we renewed with Open Track this year we added the liability coverage. Ben is doing a fine job answering questions, as usual, so I won’t presume to do the same. It isn’t my area of expertise. I will instead comment that my wife, who also tracks with me in three of our cars, is a lawyer with relevant knowledge and went over the policy as well as having another lawyer friend of hers review it along with our existing umbrella, on which we had been relying for liability up to now. They both pronounced themselves happy with the OT liability policy as written, and the price is competitive. I have made a small claim with Open Track on one occasion, during my first year of coverage. I was actually going to skip it but was encouraged by Ben when he learned of the incident, and he shepherded the claim through the process helping to earn our satisfaction and business. I feel confident offering a recommendation to anyone considering the primary or liability insurance through Open Track once they have determined it meets their needs; it’s a recommendation I’ve made to people at the track frequently over the past few years.

cosm3os

The answer to all of your questions is "they signed the waiver." And, yes, even the track workers sign the waiver.

And in anticipation of the response "the waivers aren't worth the paper they are printed on," do you think ANY insurance company would offer ANY kind of insurance for ANY kind of track liability if they didn't have very high-priced lawyers telling them that the waiver is going to hold up? The answer is "no, they wouldn't take that risk."

solarblack

I have been using On Track Insurance for on track Liability of 1 ,000,000 for 2 years now . I picked their program for Physical Damage and Liability because they only use “Admitted “ insurance companies

fatbillybob

No reply...


So....Sounds like Open track you are on your own. PCA policy quoted in this thread sounds like participants are additional insureds and therefore covered. Any car is cheap. It is the liability that can bankrupt you. With SCCA they absorb cost of track damage oil spills and liability as far as I know. It is all in the participant entry fee. It makes sense for a 67,000 member car club to protect itself and protect its members for the future of the club which is now 70 years old. I am glad SCCA does not appear to have fallen for the Motorsport Safety Foundation self proclaimed activities under the guise of what's best for the sport. I fear the unintended consequences of initial good intentions.

OpenTrack

Sorry for the delay in responding. OpenTrack in this situation (us) is actually the insurance provider. It sounds from your note that the Open Track you are referencing could be a track day provider? Just wanted to make sure I understand what you're asking. We, OpenTrack, are an insurance provider offering both physical damage & individual liability for drivers on-track. Any specific questions I can answer?

User 52121

Thanks for the details.

Comparing OpenTrack to Lockton (who I have used exclusively) - OpenTrack is actually better on price WITH a liability plan added.

I also noticed that with OpenTrack I just have to list the track, vs. with Lockton I have to also go through their list of "events" with the various orgs. (i.e. if I want to do LAPS at Autobahn, I have to find LAPS first. If LAPS isn't in their list.... )

Some day, I will get my car back, and I will trust it enough to get back to the track. When that happens, I'll look into OpenTrack.

User 52121

One question....

Is terrorism protection really something we should be concerned with? LOL.....