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So you've had one and I suppose that makes you a bit of an authority, one who may have a perspective on the current problem?
Can you offer an opinion on what it is exactly that prevents a person from racing a street legal car? What are the barricades? What needs to be fixed?
Thanks,
I don't know what the "current problem" is. I just responded to the original question, "would you want a streetable race car". That's fairly straight forward. I'm sure I could take Porsche's latest RSR and drive it on the road and it would be just fine.
As to, "what it is exactly that prevents a person from racing a street legal car?", nothing prevents it, that's how I started, with a Datsun 510 in SCCA show room stock. No barricades or fixes needed, I think you can still do that.
I'm no authority, I just recall having race cars and never hesitating to go and drive them on the road. Sure, they weren't comfortable, but who cares, they were really fun.
I don't know what the "current problem" is. I just responded to the original question, "would you want a streetable race car". That's fairly straight forward. I'm sure I could take Porsche's latest RSR and drive it on the road and it would be just fine.
As to, "what it is exactly that prevents a person from racing a street legal car?", nothing prevents it, that's how I started, with a Datsun 510 in SCCA show room stock. No barricades or fixes needed, I think you can still do that.
I'm no authority, I just recall having race cars and never hesitating to go and drive them on the road. Sure, they weren't comfortable, but who cares, they were really fun.
I've always loved the Datsun 510, it was the car I started with. Well, not me really, it belonged to someone else and I never raced it, but I helped. I actually started with a 1960 Austin Healey Sprite (I rode in it. Strictly a right seat relationship) then a '68 MGC (again, my dad's but he gave it to me and I promptly lost it in a divorce. Never marry a woman who's father is a car collector and a divorce lawyer.).
I think we began back there somewhere with roll cages. They aren't good on street cars and in some jurisdictions they're illegal. I'd race SP3 stock** except for the roll cage requirement. I don't know how to address that. Porsche's solution was the bolt in Matter cage, but that's not acceptable for cars that weren't shipped with it. Replicas aren't allowed.
Beyond that, even if I could solve the cage problem, SP3 cars are stripped. I'd rather not strip my car. It would be nice to have something other than "stock", maybe we could call it "street"? You know, still has a right seat, back seats, carpet, that sort of thing? A real street car you'd feel OK showing up with to take a date to dinner? Your typical DE car?
I'm not at all suggesting anyone should constrain or eliminate the current *****-out prepared classes. Not at all. But it would sure be nice to have a "street" class for those of us who remember what it was like to race them before the bean counters* took over.
* For the record, I'm a retired statistician so no offense intended.
** I know, there's no SP3 "stock". I meant F Stock. SP2 has a "stock". It gets confusing after awhile.
Last edited by Otto Mechanic; 12-23-2018 at 06:23 AM.
I’m not picking a fight , only quoting a small part of your reply as it struck a chord .
( d sus 7 is a fav of mine , but then again there’s only 12 notes in music )
Food for thought ?
if not , you’re not thinking enough .
or thinking too much ...
even staying “street” in a gt3 isn’t going to make you magically appear as Lewis Hamilton ...
how embaressing would it be be if Hamilton beat your full-on cup car weekend racer in a showroom-fresh family car ?
I am currently finishing a street legal Cayman that will run in PCA class H for a longtime DE customer that wants to make the next step. I was skeptical at first as I thought the compromises would be to great but I am warming to the idea. We have kept the windows, AC heat, passenger seat ect. There is lots of room in Club racing for cars like this, the Cayman is a great platform out of the box without a lot of modifications above the minimum safety requirements. The car will be driven to DE and social events but trailered with a rental trailer to races only because of the tire requirements. I think more cars should be built this way as it will increase participation. We need to get stock class back to stock
I am currently finishing a street legal Cayman that will run in PCA class H for a longtime DE customer that wants to make the next step. I was skeptical at first as I thought the compromises would be to great but I am warming to the idea. We have kept the windows, AC heat, passenger seat ect. There is lots of room in Club racing for cars like this, the Cayman is a great platform out of the box without a lot of modifications above the minimum safety requirements. The car will be driven to DE and social events but trailered with a rental trailer to races only because of the tire requirements. I think more cars should be built this way as it will increase participation. We need to get stock class back to stock
You need one of these. A few trailer rentals and you would pay for it.
Or push PCA Club Racing stock class rules to restrict the stock class cars to use DOT 100 or greater treadwear tires, then no trailer needed. Or use a roof rack!
Great thread. Recently sold a (ultimately) heavily modified air-cooled car I campaigned in PCA club racing for 14 years. It was a DE car for 5 years before that. Kept it licensed when racing it in stock classes. It was reasonably competitive. I really enjoyed the underdog nature of it. The stock classes were plentiful and less modifications were allowed back then. You really could drive to the track, race and drive home. After having "gone all the way", I realize now that the dollars to fun ratio were maximized when the car was more stock. Just my opinion. I have taken a couple years off now and I miss racing with my friends. In the end, I am just an amateur. No prizes to be had other than the memories at the bar with friends. I have a Cayman S that I use for DE now with a roll bar, seats and harnesses. Bone stock it is about as quick as my race car was. To the original poster, FWIW, am seriously considering adding the cage, cutoff, window net and just going back out to play. To the underdogs. Especially those with license plates.
Or push PCA Club Racing stock class rules to restrict the stock class cars to use DOT 100 or greater treadwear tires, then no trailer needed. Or use a roof rack!
I can't say I favor a roof rack, but I do favor the idea of requiring street tires in stock. I've tried to promote the idea of "yet another" class I've called "street" for this reason. As I understand, "stock" once meant racing a car that you might actually use on the street, while "prepared" was a stock car you'd done anything you could think of to make it go faster, like tearing out the stereo. .
But "stock" has moved on. Now it's sort of hard to race a street car and have any expectation of coming out better than the back of the pack, which is kind of hard for some folks and a few people think flies in the face of the intent behind what we call "club" racing.
I do both, but yeah the guys I know with the street legal cars are just doing time trials and are not wheel to wheel racing (with 1 or 2 exceptions). Unfortunately, the way the rules are written it's basically impossible to be competitive in a street legal car (weight, tires, etc).
Cory, if folks will stick to the limits of the Modified (M) class (not add wings, gears, or gut the interior which push them to GT) we could easily have a good group of streetable "M" cars racing in POC.
Maybe 8-10 M3 or M4 cars running on NT-01 or R7 tires. Very doable.
Roof rack is not optimal, never stays tight and you can't bring much with you in the car.
I only DE but either way if the intent is to drive to/from the event a second set of tires is needed.
Getting caught on an Interstate in a downpour on worn smooth NT01s causes wide eyes and a death grip. Full hydroplaning at 50 mph.
I had a TT2 car that I drove on the street. It didnt even have a cage yet. This transition lasted 2 years and I removed insurance from it this weekend. So in summary, no I would not want a streetable race car.
Impossible, unless you also wear your helmet and HANS in your fully caged car on the street.
Then there’s tires, alignment, suspension.... What’s best for the track will be awful for the street and vice versa.
There are a lot of good street/track cars but none without compromises.
That's a popular position to take; there are no good examples of street cars that are also good race cars. But where does that come from?
People race street cars. Are they as fast and as capable as an F1 car? Certainly not, but it's still fun doing it. I think you're confusing street car racing with the ultimate race car, but that isn't really the subject; instead it's "Would you want a streetable race car?" It's not "can you build a competitive race car that's street legal?" Completely different question.
There's never going to be a street car that will compete in F1 or any other prepared or purpose built racing class. Not going to happen and that isn't the subject; "Would you like to race your street car?" is the real subject.
Well, I did it... took way longer than expected and went so far over budget that I’m probably going to sell it to recoup the money to be able to race spec Miata this season. I went into it with a no expenses spared mindset but due to delays and significant unplanned cost overruns ($40k over budget), it has cut into my racing budget too deeply.
On the bright side, it’s as fast if not slightly faster than a 991.1 gt3. Legal for the streets and legal for races (depending on area, series, etc).
Well, I did it... took way longer than expected and went so far over budget that I’m probably going to sell it to recoup the money to be able to race spec Miata this season. I went into it with a no expenses spared mindset but due to delays and significant unplanned cost overruns ($40k over budget), it has cut into my racing budget too deeply.
On the bright side, it’s as fast if not slightly faster than a 991.1 gt3. Legal for the streets and legal for races (depending on area, series, etc).
That's a beautiful car, no doubt of that, but have you placed in the top three at a regional level with it yet? I don't mean to be a wet wick, but have you made it to the podium?
No doubt we can build cars that are legal on the track and street. I'll do it, I know others who have or will, but are you racing against peers?
12-01-2018, 09:25 PM
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