Veloce Raptor

Not a good idea to drive a fully caged car on the street

mpruden

With the exception of a full cage, kill switch, and a couple other minor things, my car could race in the Spec E46 series out here. It would be a mid-pack car at best though. To keep it streetable, I have to run the heavy stock manifolds with integrated cats (smog). It gets hot here, so I still have the power windows and AC. Too much negative camber eats tires to/from the track, so I have less than ideal camber setup. I don't run the spec tire (Toyo RR), and instead run a long wearing tire like a Hankook RS4.

It's loud, it's uncomfortable, and my wife would never ride in it. And it's still not a race car.

Capt_and

With a full roll cage, if executed properly, wouldn't it be no more intrusive than the A and B pillars with the headliner? Would a soft padding help for the cross members directly over the head?

My ideal state is to make a competitive WRL car that can be driven to the track, race, and then drive around town. Of course the wheels/tires and pads would need to be swapped but I already do that anyways - it takes under 30 minutes for all four corners. In terms of street tire wear, I would run the 340 treadwear contis on the street. Even with -3.5 camber front and -2.2 in the rear, I am not seeing a ton of wear.

NaroEscape

exactly...
Our 'street' race car Huey runs in the same class as our true race car Papa Smurf. Huey is not really a good street driver, but not too bad - yes, full cage and 6 pt harness but only Koni adjustable shocks, heavy sway bar, and a few other bits to make it race legal. But it's a horrible race car - handling is OK, not great for the track, power sucks for the class, it's heavy, etc. we've been torn as to what really to do with it - make it more street or more track.

Quyen - if you want just a track day car, that's fine. If you want a COMPETITIVE race car, you need to strip it out completely and take off EVERYTHING that is not race focused, change the suspension out from street/stock, all the safety (many race organizations require door bars now). etc. . Not very good or even advisable then for street....

garrett376

This gets mentioned a lot on these forums. I'm curious, is there data to back that up? Because along those lines of thought, it's not a good idea to drive a 356, 914, 924, or early 911, or any pre-2000 non-airbagged, non-side intrusion designed car on the street either. And statistically speaking it's probably a really bad idea to drive a Carrera GT on the street, too.

Nickshu

An important point here. A well setup DE car or "Gentlemen's" weekend racing car will probably work fine on the street, just a bit stiff and cramped. A true prepped competition race car really will not.

There are racing organizations that will let you race with pretty light setup/prep. I think you can still run NASA TT without a cage or even harnesses.

DTMiller

It's highly unlikely that there exists data that would prove the point that cages are less safe in street accidents because, generally speaking, people don't drive those cars on the street enough to create enough accidents where the data can be collected and analyzed. But I think we can safely assume that putting a metal bar near an unhelmeted head is worse than not having the bar there with all else being equal. And I think the crash test videos showing where the dummies flail about to in the cabin provide some good support for the notion as well.

Frank 993 C4S

^^^ This. Most people don't get a real kick out of racing an uncompetitive car. Handicapping yourself can be motivational for some but it gets old in the long run.

Veloce Raptor

I didn't say it was less safe. But a proper race car with race suspension and a full cage will be uncomfortable at best; and possibly a regular head banger

garrett376

You're right there is likely no data, but I've personally never even heard of it being an issue in 22 years of club racing with friends who drive to/from in their cars. And correct that a bare metal bar is no good, but I don't think anyone runs (legally at least in PCA or POC) a roll cage with a bare metal bar anywhere near where a head can be hit. Plus, SFI padding appears far more favorable of an energy disperser than some old car's A-pillars!

garrett376

You're right - sorry to quote your response as it was other posts stating the safety problem.

alexaqui

Tried it both ways. Having a dedicated track car is WAY more fun/enjoyable, even if a hassle to deal with transportation. Let's face it, cars get trashed on track. With a dedicated car, I don't really care that a tire booger was kicked up and smashed my front grill. I drilled some holes and a few zip ties and it looks like a race car should... I also like having the car be super light weight and completely dedicated to going fast on track without compromise. I also don't want to wear out those parts by driving on the street. I also like having full safety gear in the car.

CosmosMpower

W2W Race car, hell no, track car yes if it's not your primary street car and you don't drive it on the street that often.

CosmosMpower

That sounds like a really bad idea. Lots of times a WRL car won't even finish a race (got hit, mechanical failure etc) plus how are you going to get spares, fuel and other support items to the track without a truck/trailer?

ace37

Like many have said, as a track car yes, absolutely yes. It's quite appealing, and it's a market that is served today. This partially explains the popularity of the Porsche GT cars. For someone who wants to do a lot of DE or TT time they're really a perfect fit - drive the car straight to the track, run around all day, then drive home. A full factory warranty applies and assuages reliability concerns. In European markets a half cage can be optioned from the factory. And as mentioned, NASA considers TT to be a subset of advanced DE, so the minimum safety requirements are the same as HPDE.

A DE/TT car could absolutely be a great combined street and track car.

But if you're taking a step further and proposing a full on street driven wheel to wheel race car... I could maybe see an already completely impractical vintage or specialty car (like a Cobra or Caterham) or a 90%+ track use race car that is street legal. But if you are talking frequently wheel to wheel racing a modern street car like a 2 series BMW with nav and Apple CarPlay I really don't find the idea appealing. Besides the obvious practicality compromises, you'd trash the car, be forced to run in power to weight classes, and you'd need to either realign the car all the time for track wheels or settle on street tires. With racing incidents, when somebody screws up and you get clipped, would you take it to the body shop and pay to have it redone to a full street finish? Are you ok just walking away from the car after an accident? I think most of the concerns about the safety of a full cage on the street could be addressed by wearing a helmet all the time like a motorcyclist. Your side airbags could be a safety concern in a racing accident.

You certainly COULD do it, but the usage case for wheel to wheel racing is just so different that two cars make more sense for most everyone. You could easily get a good BMW race car and street car for the price of your proposed project. You could probably buy the used race car for about the cost of the conversion and just keep your street car nice!