View Poll Results: Would you buy a well sorted streetable race car?
Absolutely, sign me up!
73
50.69%
Never, race car and groceries don't mix.
71
49.31%
Voters: 144. You may not vote on this poll
Would you want a streetable race car?
#17
Three Wheelin'
With the exception of a full cage, kill switch, and a couple other minor things, my car could race in the Spec E46 series out here. It would be a mid-pack car at best though. To keep it streetable, I have to run the heavy stock manifolds with integrated cats (smog). It gets hot here, so I still have the power windows and AC. Too much negative camber eats tires to/from the track, so I have less than ideal camber setup. I don't run the spec tire (Toyo RR), and instead run a long wearing tire like a Hankook RS4.
It's loud, it's uncomfortable, and my wife would never ride in it. And it's still not a race car.
It's loud, it's uncomfortable, and my wife would never ride in it. And it's still not a race car.
#18
With a full roll cage, if executed properly, wouldn't it be no more intrusive than the A and B pillars with the headliner? Would a soft padding help for the cross members directly over the head?
My ideal state is to make a competitive WRL car that can be driven to the track, race, and then drive around town. Of course the wheels/tires and pads would need to be swapped but I already do that anyways - it takes under 30 minutes for all four corners. In terms of street tire wear, I would run the 340 treadwear contis on the street. Even with -3.5 camber front and -2.2 in the rear, I am not seeing a ton of wear.
My ideal state is to make a competitive WRL car that can be driven to the track, race, and then drive around town. Of course the wheels/tires and pads would need to be swapped but I already do that anyways - it takes under 30 minutes for all four corners. In terms of street tire wear, I would run the 340 treadwear contis on the street. Even with -3.5 camber front and -2.2 in the rear, I am not seeing a ton of wear.
#19
Basic Sponsor
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There is a reason more people don't do it. Compromising on one thing to do two jobs is seldom the right choice. You end up with two things that are OK at both, but not great at either. Having the right tool for the job is always better. AC, GPS and a radio is utterly useless in a race. Roll cage, halo seat and 6 point harnesses are useless on the street.
Also, you should just buy a completed race car. Converting a street car is the most expensive way to get a race car...
-td
Also, you should just buy a completed race car. Converting a street car is the most expensive way to get a race car...
-td
Our 'street' race car Huey runs in the same class as our true race car Papa Smurf. Huey is not really a good street driver, but not too bad - yes, full cage and 6 pt harness but only Koni adjustable shocks, heavy sway bar, and a few other bits to make it race legal. But it's a horrible race car - handling is OK, not great for the track, power sucks for the class, it's heavy, etc. we've been torn as to what really to do with it - make it more street or more track.
Quyen - if you want just a track day car, that's fine. If you want a COMPETITIVE race car, you need to strip it out completely and take off EVERYTHING that is not race focused, change the suspension out from street/stock, all the safety (many race organizations require door bars now). etc. . Not very good or even advisable then for street....
__________________
Bob Saville
Getting You On Track!
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704-395-2975
'07 SPC
'71 914/6 Huey
'04 GT3
Bob Saville
Getting You On Track!
www.naroescapemotorsports.com
704-395-2975
- Data Analysis & Coaching
- Drivers Gear
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'07 SPC
'71 914/6 Huey
'04 GT3
#20
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
This gets mentioned a lot on these forums. I'm curious, is there data to back that up? Because along those lines of thought, it's not a good idea to drive a 356, 914, 924, or early 911, or any pre-2000 non-airbagged, non-side intrusion designed car on the street either. And statistically speaking it's probably a really bad idea to drive a Carrera GT on the street, too.
#21
Rennlist Member
exactly...
Quyen - if you want just a track day car, that's fine. If you want a COMPETITIVE race car, you need to strip it out completely and take off EVERYTHING that is not race focused, change the suspension out from street/stock, all the safety (many race organizations require door bars now). etc. . Not very good or even advisable then for street....
Quyen - if you want just a track day car, that's fine. If you want a COMPETITIVE race car, you need to strip it out completely and take off EVERYTHING that is not race focused, change the suspension out from street/stock, all the safety (many race organizations require door bars now). etc. . Not very good or even advisable then for street....
There are racing organizations that will let you race with pretty light setup/prep. I think you can still run NASA TT without a cage or even harnesses.
#22
Rennlist Member
This gets mentioned a lot on these forums. I'm curious, is there data to back that up? Because along those lines of thought, it's not a good idea to drive a 356, 914, 924, or early 911, or any pre-2000 non-airbagged, non-side intrusion designed car on the street either. And statistically speaking it's probably a really bad idea to drive a Carrera GT on the street, too.
#23
Addict
Rennlist Member
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Originally Posted by himself
There is a reason more people don't do it. Compromising on one thing to do two jobs is seldom the right choice. You end up with two things that are OK at both, but not great at either.
#24
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by garrett376
This gets mentioned a lot on these forums. I'm curious, is there data to back that up? Because along those lines of thought, it's not a good idea to drive a 356, 914, 924, or early 911, or any pre-2000 non-airbagged, non-side intrusion designed car on the street either. And statistically speaking it's probably a really bad idea to drive a Carrera GT on the street, too.
#25
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
It's highly unlikely that there exists data that would prove the point that cages are less safe in street accidents because, generally speaking, people don't drive those cars on the street enough to create enough accidents where the data can be collected and analyzed. But I think we can safely assume that putting a metal bar near an unhelmeted head is worse than not having the bar there with all else being equal. And I think the crash test videos showing where the dummies flail about to in the cabin provide some good support for the notion as well.
#26
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
#27
Tried it both ways. Having a dedicated track car is WAY more fun/enjoyable, even if a hassle to deal with transportation. Let's face it, cars get trashed on track. With a dedicated car, I don't really care that a tire booger was kicked up and smashed my front grill. I drilled some holes and a few zip ties and it looks like a race car should... I also like having the car be super light weight and completely dedicated to going fast on track without compromise. I also don't want to wear out those parts by driving on the street. I also like having full safety gear in the car.
#29
Drifting
With a full roll cage, if executed properly, wouldn't it be no more intrusive than the A and B pillars with the headliner? Would a soft padding help for the cross members directly over the head?
My ideal state is to make a competitive WRL car that can be driven to the track, race, and then drive around town. Of course the wheels/tires and pads would need to be swapped but I already do that anyways - it takes under 30 minutes for all four corners. In terms of street tire wear, I would run the 340 treadwear contis on the street. Even with -3.5 camber front and -2.2 in the rear, I am not seeing a ton of wear.
My ideal state is to make a competitive WRL car that can be driven to the track, race, and then drive around town. Of course the wheels/tires and pads would need to be swapped but I already do that anyways - it takes under 30 minutes for all four corners. In terms of street tire wear, I would run the 340 treadwear contis on the street. Even with -3.5 camber front and -2.2 in the rear, I am not seeing a ton of wear.
#30
Rennlist Member
I am currently working with my shop about converting my BMW M240i into a race car. But, based on extensive conversation with my wife, we want to be able to use it as a street car as well. I spoke with the shop about this and they thought I was kidding. Personally, I am surprised that this hasn't been done by more people. No more having to trailer the car and no more car that can only be used off road. Am I the only one that thinks a fast, well sorted streetable race car would be marketable?
The car would still have all of its daily luxuries like gps, stereo, and a/c but would also have the proper safety equipment and well tuned suspension/performance bits. Of course, there would be no compromise in safety on the street and track.
The car would still have all of its daily luxuries like gps, stereo, and a/c but would also have the proper safety equipment and well tuned suspension/performance bits. Of course, there would be no compromise in safety on the street and track.
A DE/TT car could absolutely be a great combined street and track car.
But if you're taking a step further and proposing a full on street driven wheel to wheel race car... I could maybe see an already completely impractical vintage or specialty car (like a Cobra or Caterham) or a 90%+ track use race car that is street legal. But if you are talking frequently wheel to wheel racing a modern street car like a 2 series BMW with nav and Apple CarPlay I really don't find the idea appealing. Besides the obvious practicality compromises, you'd trash the car, be forced to run in power to weight classes, and you'd need to either realign the car all the time for track wheels or settle on street tires. With racing incidents, when somebody screws up and you get clipped, would you take it to the body shop and pay to have it redone to a full street finish? Are you ok just walking away from the car after an accident? I think most of the concerns about the safety of a full cage on the street could be addressed by wearing a helmet all the time like a motorcyclist. Your side airbags could be a safety concern in a racing accident.
You certainly COULD do it, but the usage case for wheel to wheel racing is just so different that two cars make more sense for most everyone. You could easily get a good BMW race car and street car for the price of your proposed project. You could probably buy the used race car for about the cost of the conversion and just keep your street car nice!