Nizer

Joe T

Being from Houston, the heat at VIR doesn't strike me as such a big deal. I love that race track - one of the very best in the US. I never look at the date as a factor of should I go or not. I try to go irrespective of what date the race is scheduled. Just my 2 cents.

Joe T

I have to say that I am in complete agreement that the seat played a big role in my safety. When I first sat in a 991 cup I noticed how much more solid the seat was. If you've watched in-car videos of earlier cups, you can see a pretty fair amount of seat shake/movement. I bought the P1300 for my 997 GT3R because I felt the safety was worth it. When I decided (or so I thought) to retire the car, I ended up selling the seat to Stu which was the seat in the car when I had the big hit. What a happy coincidence!! I shudder to think what could have been the outcome if the seat had broken off it's mounts or otherwise failed. How much would you have been willing to pay for whatever safety gear might have saved your life? This thought has always guided my decisions. Early in my racing activities, I hit the wall going up hill after turn 1 at Road Atlanta (super cold morning on very cold tires) and realized how much damage happened to the car but I was unscathed. I remember thinking the only part of me that wasn't really secured was my head. I immediately ordered a HANS device even though they were not required and were $1,000 which is not a trivial amount of money. Very glad I did.

Also, thanks for everyone's well wishes.

dwe8922

I talked to the registrar at Barber, and he said that putting the race on was a gamble, and they didn't know if it would work out this year. It sounded like they had enough people for all the numbers to work out, and that they were wanting to do it next year. I hope that's the case, as it was a fun track.

GT3DE

Barber won't make it. The numbers were not high. The heat and humidity was miserable. I was there. Everyone I hung out with came for the novelty. None I talked to are ever going back. Including me.

As to the other dates mention for VIR - yes, I'll take any of them.

SCCA - who cares?

For the VIR white knights and cheerleaders, thanks for loving on VIR and saying you'll go no matter the date or the heat. Just know you are a small group. Your numbers are getting smaller, not larger judging by attendance .

The vir date needs to be moved to get the numbers up. Let's make this happen.

Dr911

First Settlers PCA Region has TWO (!!) PRIME DE dates at VIR: one is in May over Memorial Day wknd and the other is in mid- late September. BOTH are 3 days full DE.

Similarly Carolinas PCA region has a nice October date with gorgeous fall foliage.

Why not try working out a deal with either of them?

I'd be surprised if anyone will consider swapping out a highly prized SCCA date, as their and NASA's attendance both easily exceed that of even PCA's largest events eg: 48 Sebring or Oktoberfast Daytona.

jgiannone

I’d put this discussion into the category of “the things you can control versus the things you can’t”. It just may be that nothing can be done about the date. Assuming that’s the case, how do we make the best of what we’ve got to enable this event to stay on the calendar, and be successful. The experience of VIR is the track itself, the gracious hosts, the long days of the summer solstice, the dinners on the back deck of the Oak Tree Tavern, and cocktails at poolside. In my mind, all of that makes the heat just a worthwhile inconvenience. NJMP in August is no picnic either, as 95 and humid is 95 and humid, but we do that one also.As suggested, 1) starting earlier in the morning, 2) combining run groups (we did one combined Enduro at VIR years ago, with everything from GTA down to SP1, and everyone got along fine), 3)combining “warm ups” into one condensed session, 4) eliminate the separate qualifying on Saturday (one less session to begin the process of degradation; body, spirit, and mechanical), and 5) having everyone complete their enduro by Noon or 1:30 at the latest on Sunday would go a long way toward making VIR a far more pleasant experience. VIR…..you’ll be home for dinner on Sunday!Is everyone aware of the proximity and convenience of Danville Airport. From suburban Philadelphia, it’s a 7-8 hour tow. From North Jersey and New England, its 10-12. That’s a lot to ask, hence the reference to the airport.The other factor that will make the event more appealing is if we as drivers can limit the carnage. The track lends itself to tension because with any two reasonably similar cars, it’s very difficult to pass from Turn One all the way up to Oak Tree. Then, the order gets reshuffled by cars that in many cases run slower laps times, but are faster on the back straight, and the tension grows again all the way back up to Oak Tree. If a car qualifies a second and a half in front of me, and five laps into the race he’s hounding me from behind after the chaos at the start, it just might be wise for me to let him by. It doesn’t do me much good to fight someone off if the cars in front of me are checking out, and a dozen others are bunching up behind me waiting to freight train me if I make one mistake. I hate to say this because it flies in the face of any professional racer, but selfishness on the track is not always a good thing. We’re racing with friends, and that $6 trophy isn’t worth a $6000 repair bill for a friend. As you can see, I’m a big fan of VIR. It’s a real test, on every front. I’d hate to see if disappear off the calendar. Talk it up with your friends.

GT3DE

Ok, let's get all 35 of you that love vir and will go no matter what to chime in...

then we can get back to discussing moving the date so we can actually get 200 guys to show up.

FilthyF14

VIR Race Chair again - appreciate the discussion. Sharing the registration numbers to help the discussion along: 2018/129, 2017/139, 2016/151, 2015/missing data, 2014/139, 2013/120, 2012/102, 2011/75, 2010/110, 2009/155, 2008/125. A major factor in the profitability (or lack of) this year is decline in DE drivers. DE numbers were down from about 44 to 27; a significant impact to the revenue. Lots of discussion about the decline in DE numbers with one of them being weather, but also a crowded market with lots of DE opportunities on the VIR full course - without a threat - or perceived threat - of losing track time in favor of the racers. (For the record, I don't think that "competition" is the problem). Pretty significant decline over the the past three years with lost revenue from 22 fewer racers and 18 DE drivers. Plus track rental expenses are up about 22% in the past five years. More sponsorship would help too.

Continuing to look at date options but no good ones now. True, other groups have VIR full course weekends and milder weather and like them. The PCA schedule has to be consider too, with the Summit Point race also in SEP. The May weekend leaves at least a two week buffer between Lime Rock and the Glen. (Small point, but the FSR DE date in fall is on the south course only and tough to fill the grid). I agree the draw needs to be the track, the amenities, the beauty, the staff (from the Pagoda Grill staff to the Ops Directors and, proud to say, the dedicated volunteer staff. Plus VIR is halfway between ONT and FL where drivers come from and an equally long haul from either TX or WI where other drivers come from.

Considering accepting a PCA Vintage group instead of the DE group. Better to make the event all racers if the DE drivers aren't interested anymore.

The other suggestions I have some control over. Expect an early finish on Sunday. However, VIR has mandatory quiet hours from 1100-1200 and earliest allowable start is 0800. Can only fit one enduro race into the three hour morning block. If one run group doesn't work, at least the second enduro race will be over by 2PM. Afternoon would be a third Vintage Sprint or three hours of open track for DE.

One last comment...... those trophies cost $!5 not $6!!!!! Expect to see the same laser-etched wooden plaques with the "2018" brass plates replaced with "2019". Hey - just trying to save some money and keep this event viable!

Nizer

Agree with Clarke, this should be a 200+ racer event, which I suspect would negate the need to run concurrent DE and would result in less disparate run groups making it more fun for all. I've had enough discussions with other racers that makes it pretty clear heat is the primary issue holding back numbers for this race (just as it does for NJMP in August).

And FWIW, I'm fine with the $6 trophies ;-)

somdcroc

A couple of important corrections. PCA FSR has a popular Memorial day weekend DE at VIR and its very important to FSR. We (FSR) are part of Zone 2 but we have already lost events to the Zone in the past (I am told) and we rely on this event to help our region's charitable causes) . This weekend is also risky as far as heat/T-storms and because its a holiday/vacation weekend, but in our two years there we have done okay.

Our FSR Fall DE event is October (no longer September when we used to do 2 days on the South) now and its a 2 day (Fri-Sat) event on the Full Course. Its a tough sell (I'm the registrar and am already worrying about not breaking even) because we share that weekend with Chin (Sun-Mon). The Carolinas Region DE is not October but in November . It sells very well and is popular amongst us DE drivers but is cold & frosty every morning and the days are short (sundown is very early), and Carolinas is not a Zone 2 region so they likely not give up that date. April would be perfect but there are long established events at VIR during the only couple of PCA defined acceptable weekends so I doubt those clubs want to give them up. Please remember--like most track VIR has waiting lists for dates and although they have been kind to us (FSR) in the past, they have also bumped us (without notice) out of of our very nice dates for higher drawing (spectator events). Unless PCA CR can scramble some dates around (causing havoc for everyone) I don't see many options but Phil and the team are certainly willing to listen for inputs and solutions (especially from those that have influence on both the PCA National CR Staff and the VIR staff!)

Scott
Z2 CR Registrar and FSR DE Registrar

GT3DE

The problem with NJMP is not the heat as much as it is NJ.
NJ is a horrible state with ridiculous laws. No [legal conceal carry] guns. Can't fill up your own car with gas. High taxes on everything. The state is a joke. And people just don't want to go there.

And there's nothing special about the track. In fact, it eats front tires.

The only reason it gets anyone at the pca cr is the dearth of events in the mid Atlantic area in August. Without its proximity to NYC and DC, it would have no one there.

I gave up on that place already.

Nizer

No [legal conceal carry] guns. Your a visitor and reciprocity is no different than NY but doesn't seem to keep you away from the Glen.

Can't fill up your own car with gas. Stupid. Agreed.

High taxes on everything. Relative to VA, sure. Relative to NY, CT, MA, CA.... But as visitor do you really give a crap?

The state is a joke. The state has definitely produced some great comedians: Jerry Lewis, Lou Costello, Chris Rock, Chris Christie...

And people just don't want to go there. If only that were true....

And there's nothing special about the track. In fact, it eats front tires. Don't drive so fast.

I gave up on that place already. Come on now. The track has tons of grass and you know how much you like driving on grass.

MSR Racer

somdcroc

For those that think its easy simply asking the SCCA to give up their prime weekend at VIR for us PCA folks think again. The SCCA and VIR have a relationship that goes all the way back to 1957. I suppose we could out bid them but we'd have to raise the entry fees a substantial amount. The track has already responded to our questions about that specific weekend in a way that let me know they wouldn't consider it.

Another topic we haven't discussed about this event and its impact to our overall numbers is the Trophy East series. In some ways its a positive addition to the weekend as it brings an exciting semi-pro series with some some awesome new high performance cars. On the other hand it makes it difficult for the PCA CR staff to load balance the run groups as this series has yet to break the mid 25 mark for car counts meaning the other run groups can get large and/or imbalanced. The Trophy East Series brings its own dedicated Staff of PCA National Scrutes and Stewards, Factory (both Porsche and Tire) engineers, etc. as well as its own processes. The series pays the Zone an amount offsetting the expenses of hosting these drivers who don't register/pay in the normal manner so we can help pay the track rent. We are likely to have the Trophy East series for a long time so it must be planned for. However, I wonder if this series couldn't be run on its own--perhaps during a normal Zone or Region HPDE weekend with the DE drivers as the "support" series for the TE series by limiting the DE to just solo drivers only. This sort of flips the coin on the traditional use of DE entries to fill in Club race time by using a race series to fill in DE time but without completely taking away a DE program's event. We could maybe even weave in a PCA National DE Instructor course during the weekend. Just a thought...