I need the unemotional logic of RLers. ZR1 or R?
#46
The 2015-16 cars with both transmissions could overheat on a road course especially in high ambient temp conditions. The M7 cars are better than the A8 cars in this regard. Experienced drivers can ‘drive around’ this issue by short-shifting the car, but it is somewhat frustrating, whereas many poorly experienced drivers, or those new to road course driving, overheated the cars rapidly on track by constantly driving it up against the rev-limiter. When the engine oil temps reached around 300dF, the cars would go into limp mode and had to be parked. Before reaching limp mode, they would also start pulling timing due to increased IATs, although the car was still very fast at that point.
For the 2017 model year, GM added a secondary engine radiator in the location of the A8 auxiliary transmission radiator for the M7 cars, which essentially has made it difficult to overheat them at all on track. Unfortunately nothing was done to address the overheating characteristics of the A8 Z06 at all. To address the elevated IATs, larger inter cooler ‘bricks’ were used along with the cover of the S/C being increased in size to allow the bricks to be placed at a slight angle.
So since 2017 the cars are far less likely to pull power, and the M7s can be driven very rapidly without issues re: overheating. The A8s will still overheat the engine oil/water unfortunately unless short shifted.
The ZR1 has apparently addressed all of these cooling issues, although I wouldn’t purchase an A8 version until there are multiple reports from owners driving them on track during the summer months to see how the temps are being handled.
The GS is a fantastic car, but a Z51 and/or GS won’t come close to a Z06/ZR1 on a road course.
#47
Several folks now saying a GS is a better track car. Why so? Not being snarky in the least just honestly don't know a lot about the different 'vette options. The ZR1 got my attention 'cuz it's really a Super Car at a non-supercar price, but now I'm curious to get "schooled" on all the different 'vette types.
I probably should head over to the Corvette forum and try reading up a little instead of starting a Corvette discussion in a Porsche forum. Don't shoot me everyone. Just askin'
I probably should head over to the Corvette forum and try reading up a little instead of starting a Corvette discussion in a Porsche forum. Don't shoot me everyone. Just askin'
It has "all" the upgrades that the Z06 gets (suspension, wheels/tires, brakes, aero, widebody, seats, etc) except for the engine, which has the same 465hp(?) as the Z51.
As to whether it's a "better" track car, it just depends on what you want from a track car. It is cheaper to buy, has fewer parts that can break, still looks the part, and is probably plenty fast for most people. Because it shares more powertrain parts with the high-volume models, there is often a better after-market as well. In some cases you can also use parts from the upgraded models for an easy upgrade.
The ZR1 (and Z06) is faster. If faster=better, then the ZR1 is the most betterest Corvette that you can buy. Some people like that, some people don't care as much.
#48
Nope, not resolved. Customers complained, GM was supposed to have fixed it, new cars still overheating. So says class action law suit. I do agree with you that it is likely blown out of proportion.
#49
When your cooling needs are met, spend $1200 for a DSC V3 and along with the DSC alignment specs you simply won;t believe the balance of the car; it’s superb.
Lastly spend the money to equip the car with the AP Racing replacement brakes; there’s nothing better and it will reduce your consumable costs dramatically if you do many events/year.
#50
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by JP66
Several folks now saying a GS is a better track car. Why so? Not being snarky in the least just honestly don't know a lot about the different 'vette options. The ZR1 got my attention 'cuz it's really a Super Car at a non-supercar price, but now I'm curious to get "schooled" on all the different 'vette types.
I probably should head over to the Corvette forum and try reading up a little instead of starting a Corvette discussion in a Porsche forum. Don't shoot me everyone. Just askin'
I probably should head over to the Corvette forum and try reading up a little instead of starting a Corvette discussion in a Porsche forum. Don't shoot me everyone. Just askin'
#51
It was blown out of proportion in that (from my recollection) GM's less than rigorous maintenance practices for press vehicles amplified the heat management issues resulting in a downright failure in at least one high-profile magazine test.
#52
Rennlist Member
The ZR1 may not be a drive to the track, exercise it fully and then drive back home car. I say this because someone close to the its development told me that if one can and does use the full capability of the car your tire life will be less than one hour. YMMV, but if true then a support vehicle to carry extra tires would be needed for a typical DE day. With ZR1s now being delivered, there should be feedback soon from users. Regardless, driving a new ZR1 on tracks like Sebring or Road America (two of my favorites) would have to be one of life’s greatest thrills. I would say that if you have the urge to track a ZR1, then do it.
#53
R all the way until you can do 58s
woukd you even get out of 3rd gear anyplace at LRP in zr1 or z06?
i drove a students z06 at summit and it scared the living daylights out of me. no gracias not for me. also nannies for days.... massive tyres so much grip. car is honestly not of this world. to drive that on the edge is a terrifying proposition to me.
imho take the money you were going to spend on the z06 and get more seat time at more tracks not just little lrp - and invest in more coaching in your F car or the R - less dough and you’lll be way faster
woukd you even get out of 3rd gear anyplace at LRP in zr1 or z06?
i drove a students z06 at summit and it scared the living daylights out of me. no gracias not for me. also nannies for days.... massive tyres so much grip. car is honestly not of this world. to drive that on the edge is a terrifying proposition to me.
imho take the money you were going to spend on the z06 and get more seat time at more tracks not just little lrp - and invest in more coaching in your F car or the R - less dough and you’lll be way faster
#54
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Yeah, just as with the C6 GS, putting the Z06 or Z07 chassis with the LT1 drivetrain means you get a 440hp (or whatever it is these days) car that drives like a Spec Miata. Get the tires fully warmed-up, you'll have no issues putting down every bit of power - PTM no longer needed after the out lap. Good times...
#55
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by 924RACR
Yeah, just as with the C6 GS, putting the Z06 or Z07 chassis with the LT1 drivetrain means you get a 440hp (or whatever it is these days) car that drives like a Spec Miata. Get the tires fully warmed-up, you'll have no issues putting down every bit of power - PTM no longer needed after the out lap. Good times...
Even with my Z51 on Michelin run flats...it's the same
#56
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Yeah, just as with the C6 GS, putting the Z06 or Z07 chassis with the LT1 drivetrain means you get a 440hp (or whatever it is these days) car that drives like a Spec Miata. Get the tires fully warmed-up, you'll have no issues putting down every bit of power - PTM no longer needed after the out lap. Good times...
It's all for fun, right JP? Part of that fun is having a rare and unusual car that the cognoscenti KNOW what it is... And there are a lot of cognoscenti at the LRDC. That's why it's a fun place.
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www.peterkrause.net
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"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
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-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
#57
Truthfully, I don't see how you could lose with any of these cars thrill-wise......
Gary
#58
hey guys. I can't comment on the 2019 ZR-1, but as a quick counterpoint -- last year at VIR I had a pair of clients; one of them had a C7 Z06/Z07, the other had a ZL1-1LE. I drove both cars back to back and rode all weekend long in both of them. hands down, I'll take the ZL1-1LE over the Z06/07. reasoning? the ZL1-1LE was MUCH more stable and confidence inspiring at very high speeds/heavy braking. the Z06/Z07 felt a bit more 'nervous' (the Z06/Z07 was in high downforce configuration too). (both cars were on stock tires and were stock except for brake pads). I liked the overall seating position a bit more in the ZL1-1LE (personal preference); definitely like the shifting better in the ZL1-1LE (but the Z06 is not bad!). surprisingly, even carrying the additional weight, the ZL1-1LE was as fast or faster than the Z06/Z07. lastly, ZL1-1LE is less expensive! if it were my $, I'd go with the ZL1-1LE.
#59
Three Wheelin'
If your R is worth more than you paid for it and it holds its value or at least depreciates slowly, sounds like you're driving it for free or nearly free (except for consumables). But it sounds like you're just itching to drop $130k on the ZR1 so go for it.
#60
You are correct and many have made the same comment. GM has developed the heck out of the camaro and it is really top drawer. The camaro also has the better stronger 10spd autobox with programing that kills the A8 in the vette. The vette tunnel is too small for the 10. In fact the A8 barely fits and is part of the claimed reason for A8 problems seen in the vettes.