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Of course an amateur (like me) would be reasonably likely to wreck it before having to do a lot of maintenance so maybe it's really not that different...
I have heard of a few guys that took a roller like that and stuck a SBC in there. Still only good until you run it off course or have any of the many expensive one-off parts time out.
For me cars like the NP-01, the Cayman GT4 CS, a 996 Cup (pre-sequential), a spec series race car, or an SCCA prototype with money for spares and tires would be the short list. An ex-CN car (ideally with Honda power to keep costs manageable) or a Radical would be on the table too.
Looks familiar. was this taken at Race Kraft and Design? My friends shop and I believe this is the car he took Podium at Indy in.
Wow!Such a huge response !So currently I am towing a 2010 gt3 to the track.The Elan looks promising!How is maintenance on one of those?Is maintenance on the GT4 platform any cheaper than the 997.2 GT3 ?How about fun factor?I know what I have is awesome but always trying to tweak!Thanks for all the help everyone!
I went from towing a 997GT3 to the track to a 2016 GT4 clubsport. Full cage. PDK. Fire supression. Easy transition from 997 Street car as the brakes, ABS, TC and consumables are about the same.
I run my GT4 with an arrive and drive program for racing, however you could easily trailer it yourself and run it for open lapping.
Not many in the market for sale and resale has been good one them. You will be $120-140k.
If you want something for less money, there is the option of a preowned 2009-2012 Cayman racer if you find one. GTB class. PDK or Manual. Fast, reliable.
The transition from a road car to a Cayman race car is going to be straight forward.
You can still run pump gas, parts are readily available and you have lots of PCA D.E track days and even PCA Clubracing to keep you busy.
I would avoid 2005-2013 Cup as track day car. You can add $$ ABS, or flat spot a few tires. You can add $$ paddle shift or go through more gearbox rebuild intervals.
It is a great car, but not that great to self support unless you really know what you are doing. The novelty would wear off quick as soon as you ran into problems. Exciting however!
There are other Porsches set up for racing that you can have for that budget or less, however i tend to stick with something that has a good class for racing, DFI motors and PDK box for ease of ownership/less time in the shop.
There are other makes of race cars out there, but i am more or a road/sports car guy and enjoy running PCA with other Porsche owners and their cars.
OP, genuinely, do you want to have big grins and blow off steam from work, or do you want to develop skills and be a fast driver? Both are reasonable - no trick question.
If you just want to hop in a rocketship at the track and blast off, just get whatever cool looking machine floats your boat. Yours is one of the best choices for a street legal sedan. If you don't care about street legal you have a lot more options. A prototype or formula car will up the thrill factor dramatically. Radicals, ex-CN cars, an SCCA prototype, and really just about any race car in the <=1500 lb and ~200hp class will do the job. And $30-50k will buy very nice used hardware. You can find a way to spend the rest easily - spares, trailer, more events, etc.
If you want to get to be a fast driver and that's part of what you will find fulfilling, most everyone told me to learn to drive something with high grip and low downforce well before going to high grip and high downforce. Downforce is not linear with speed so anticipating and effectively utilizing it adds a significant layer of complication when you're already trying to learn and master a lot of new skills at once to get good at driving on the edge and hitting all your marks. You'll also probably want to consider racing as the long game. Picking the right race car is actually quite easy: Go see what cars show up at the events you'd be likely to attend, and from the well attended race classes just pick your favorite. The rules of that class will essentially dictate your race car to you.
If you want to go to a prototype or formula car, you'll be taking a different road than sedans, and the SCCA is the biggest game in town by far. For good info on formula cars, start lurking on apexspeed.com and you'll get the lay of the land. Formula Ford is a good place to start. There are a few multi-day racing schools that let you earn your racing license in a formula car, and if you're on the fence I'd give those courses consideration as you could get your feet wet in a rental and see if you like it. I'd own one but the SCCA doesn't run events locally and I can't travel to events much right now.
FWIW no matter how you cut it, I feel like sticky tires plus low weight make for a lot more fun than big acceleration and speeds. (And all of them would be the most fun but my skill level would never improve!) I ran my 911 turbo in full street trim at half a DE and really had a blast, but I had more fun in a rental SPB on Hoosiers - which is what got me thinking about building one in the first place. The grip of the DOT slicks in the corners just made my grin a mile wide... and the 986 Boxster platform is lighter weight, more nimble, and cheaper in every way than a late model 911 so I didn't feel like I needed to hold anything back. So I ran harder, the car gripped harder, and I had quite a bit more fun. Being quite a bit cheaper and lower risk was a bonus. And it emphasizes and rewards driving well: any mistake in any momentum car will have a big negative impact on lap time, so driving well emphasizes making hardly any mistakes and encourages driver improvement. The 911 turbo forgave me for my last mistake every time the tarmac curved a bit.
Originally Posted by cobalt
Looks familiar. was this taken at Race Kraft and Design? My friends shop and I believe this is the car he took Podium at Indy in.
Sure looks like it - I see the same body shell in the background. No affiliation though. Just thought an Indy car would make it clear that maintenance costs can dwarf everything else.
I went from spec boxster to radical last summer, so slow to aero race cars
you learn to trust wot through corners as you see other drivers doing it (data as well)
i came up to speed in the radical after about 5 track days
obviously coaching would be beneficial
I race it with SCCA and Radical Canada West in the Pacific Northwest. Class D Sport Racer (DSR)
This summer we will be racing at Pacific Raceway, Portland, The Ridge, and Area 27 (new track in Oliver BC designed by Jacques Villeneuve)
I loved SPB, but there is no pca clubracing anywhere close to my new home in BC
In other parts of USA, Radicals run with PBOC,and have a series in USA and Eastern Canada
I race it with SCCA and Radical Canada West in the Pacific Northwest. Class D Sport Racer (DSR)
This summer we will be racing at Pacific Raceway, Portland, The Ridge, and Area 27 (new track in Oliver BC designed by Jacques Villeneuve)
I loved SPB, but there is no pca clubracing anywhere close to my new home in BC
In other parts of USA, Radicals run with PBOC,and have a series in USA and Eastern Canada
I race it with SCCA and Radical Canada West in the Pacific Northwest. Class D Sport Racer (DSR)
This summer we will be racing at Pacific Raceway, Portland, The Ridge, and Area 27 (new track in Oliver BC designed by Jacques Villeneuve)
I loved SPB, but there is no pca clubracing anywhere close to my new home in BC
In other parts of USA, Radicals run with PBOC,and have a series in USA and Eastern Canada
Wow, this sounds great, glad I asked! I'm also in BC, so it's very relevant info. I'm pondering my options to get into a purpose-built track/race car because 1) I'm getting too close to what's reasonable for a street car without a full safety system, 2) my family situation may finally give me some time to actually try racing. This season I'll do some test drives in a range of cars, from Spec/Super Miata to GT4 Clubsport and probably Radicals to make a more informed decision on what I want to do.
Wow, this sounds great, glad I asked! I'm also in BC, so it's very relevant info. I'm pondering my options to get into a purpose-built track/race car because 1) I'm getting too close to what's reasonable for a street car without a full safety system, 2) my family situation may finally give me some time to actually try racing. This season I'll do some test drives in a range of cars, from Spec/Super Miata to GT4 Clubsport and probably Radicals to make a more informed decision on what I want to do.
Good luck on your journey this summer.
PM me anytime if I can help in any way.
I've gone through quite a few cars and building a 997tt Track car now. My old Radical was an amazing piece of fun, but she was fragile and needed a lot of attention by end of my race season. The newer ones have much better setups and continue to reward. Later I tried the GT350R I thought it was big and soft- sounded insane though! So hoping my turbo entertains enough.
Ironically the fastest I've been around ThunderHill was my first outing in the Radical and it had an arced coil and per Dyno testing only made 100hp. Replaced that and it became a rocket, BUT lap times were about the same. Momentum cars at the brink of adhesion are sooo much fun!
OP, genuinely, do you want to have big grins and blow off steam from work, or do you want to develop skills and be a fast driver? Both are reasonable - no trick question.
If you just want to hop in a rocketship at the track and blast off, just get whatever cool looking machine floats your boat. Yours is one of the best choices for a street legal sedan. If you don't care about street legal you have a lot more options. A prototype or formula car will up the thrill factor dramatically. Radicals, ex-CN cars, an SCCA prototype, and really just about any race car in the <=1500 lb and ~200hp class will do the job. And $30-50k will buy very nice used hardware. You can find a way to spend the rest easily - spares, trailer, more events, etc.
If you want to get to be a fast driver and that's part of what you will find fulfilling, most everyone told me to learn to drive something with high grip and low downforce well before going to high grip and high downforce. Downforce is not linear with speed so anticipating and effectively utilizing it adds a significant layer of complication when you're already trying to learn and master a lot of new skills at once to get good at driving on the edge and hitting all your marks. You'll also probably want to consider racing as the long game. Picking the right race car is actually quite easy: Go see what cars show up at the events you'd be likely to attend, and from the well attended race classes just pick your favorite. The rules of that class will essentially dictate your race car to you.
If you want to go to a prototype or formula car, you'll be taking a different road than sedans, and the SCCA is the biggest game in town by far. For good info on formula cars, start lurking on apexspeed.com and you'll get the lay of the land. Formula Ford is a good place to start. There are a few multi-day racing schools that let you earn your racing license in a formula car, and if you're on the fence I'd give those courses consideration as you could get your feet wet in a rental and see if you like it. I'd own one but the SCCA doesn't run events locally and I can't travel to events much right now.
FWIW no matter how you cut it, I feel like sticky tires plus low weight make for a lot more fun than big acceleration and speeds. (And all of them would be the most fun but my skill level would never improve!) I ran my 911 turbo in full street trim at half a DE and really had a blast, but I had more fun in a rental SPB on Hoosiers - which is what got me thinking about building one in the first place. The grip of the DOT slicks in the corners just made my grin a mile wide... and the 986 Boxster platform is lighter weight, more nimble, and cheaper in every way than a late model 911 so I didn't feel like I needed to hold anything back. So I ran harder, the car gripped harder, and I had quite a bit more fun. Being quite a bit cheaper and lower risk was a bonus. And it emphasizes and rewards driving well: any mistake in any momentum car will have a big negative impact on lap time, so driving well emphasizes making hardly any mistakes and encourages driver improvement. The 911 turbo forgave me for my last mistake every time the tarmac curved a bit.
Sure looks like it - I see the same body shell in the background. No affiliation though. Just thought an Indy car would make it clear that maintenance costs can dwarf everything else.
Actually is my best friend from HS's personal garage. He runs a business out of it to keep his 2 full time mechanics busy when not working on his cars or supporting his racing. I spent the weekend down at Amelia showing his 83 March Holbert built car. Red Lobster
His comments along with his mechanics mimics what you're saying. He started with racing McLaren F5000, M6's, Lola T70's and other Can AM cars, Indy and then finally has worked into the GTP ground effects cars. He plans to vintage race the Red Lobster car and these can be purchased relatively cheap compared to other GTP cars but requires a full time mechanic to support and keep running competitively. In any case it is a big boy game and requires deep pockets.
Speaking with Dave Cowart that day the driver of the March and listening to his experiences going from a high grip M1 car to a ground effects car was scary. These cars produced between 6500 and 8000 pounds of downforce which disappears almost instantaneously when dropping below certain speeds and how he had to learn how to drive all over again once he climbed behind the wheel. Definitely something you work your way into.
Upgrade to full clubsport cage for safety. And race seat.
Add toe links.
After you get good on street tires, go to Hoosier R7. Then slicks.
For extra fun, remove the interior.
Change gear ratios.
Upgrade shocks/springs.
fwiw, I still have mine. Bought it new. Most fun ever on track.
03-26-2018, 09:26 AM
