What's going on with AiM???
05-03-2018, 01:22 PM
#31
This may be a dumb question but why cant we get a system to run off an I pad. I have an AIM dash in my race car and dont have a clue how to use it but on the other hand I drive a multimillion dollar yacht with all the bells and whistles and my i pad does most of the job.
05-03-2018, 03:04 PM
#32
This may be a dumb question but why cant we get a system to run off an I pad. I have an AIM dash in my race car and dont have a clue how to use it but on the other hand I drive a multimillion dollar yacht with all the bells and whistles and my i pad does most of the job.
05-03-2018, 06:19 PM
#33
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This may be a dumb question but why cant we get a system to run off an I pad. I have an AIM dash in my race car and dont have a clue how to use it but on the other hand I drive a multimillion dollar yacht with all the bells and whistles and my i pad does most of the job.
05-06-2018, 02:19 PM
#35
Now that I think about it The pad would have no problem being the display . On the boat since there is so many options availible for sources of data the industry has come up with a standard data stream NEMA when coupled to Wi Fi,
makes the I pad the choice of desplays
makes the I pad the choice of desplays
05-06-2018, 02:21 PM
#36
Now that I think about it The pad would have no problem being the display . On the boat since there is so many options availible for sources of data, the industry has come up with a standard data stream. "NEMA". Add Wi Fi,
the I pad the choice of displays
the I pad the choice of displays
05-07-2018, 11:05 AM
#37
As a configuration tool the issue is connectivity. Nearly everything on your boat is Bluetooth or Wi-fi enabled. It is relatively cheap and easy to write software to work with this, and the cost is low since Bluetooth and wi-fi are global standards. Older AiM devices aren't wi-fi enabled, so they need a direct wired connection to configure them. Apple doesn't license their proprietary phone connector for cheap. AiM would need to pay Apple just to get the pinout and rights to use that connector. Then they'd need a unique cable to map that pinout to whatever the AiM products use. With Race Studio not already being designed to run on Android or iOS it would need to be rewritten or have portions of it ported over to a new operating system. This may take years and millions of dollars to develop, test, and properly implement. Since newer AiM devices are starting to offer wi-fi capability (new Solo 2 and Solo 2 DL) I suspect AiM has already been working on phone / device connectivity for a couple years. AiM already advertises a "coming soon" iPhone app.
05-07-2018, 01:52 PM
#38
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. Instead of polling OBD II data at 3Hz I can read signals at 100 ~ 1000Hz on the CAN bus. I test vehicles for a living, so I'm used to having all this data at these wonderful data rates.
Since newer AiM devices are starting to offer wi-fi capability (new Solo 2 and Solo 2 DL) I suspect AiM has already been working on phone / device connectivity for a couple years. AiM already advertises a "coming soon" iPhone app.
Since newer AiM devices are starting to offer wi-fi capability (new Solo 2 and Solo 2 DL) I suspect AiM has already been working on phone / device connectivity for a couple years. AiM already advertises a "coming soon" iPhone app.
Some systems (like the VBOX Sport and the HD2) can adjust or select settings in the unit, but you can't build a configuration and send it to an AiM or any other device (except for the RaceCapture Pro products, the RacePak CL1 and Race Navigator) from an iOS device , much less wirelessly.
With the introduction in November of 2014 of the AiM MXL2/MXS/MXG series of display loggers, as well as the EVO5 logger, AiM has offered WiFi connectivity for configuration and management from a Windows PC. The Solo 2 has limited configurability and of course, data downloads and live measures monitored ONLY through WiFi, as will the Solo 2 DL. The iOS app for basic analysis has already been mocked up for testing, similar to the MyChron5 recall screens, IIRC.
As far as polling or sniffing data from the vehicle CANBus, it depends on the car and the sample rate of the individual channels. OBDII connectivity in vehicles, even if some of the CANBus info is available at the J1979 connector, is sampled at less than Vehicle CANBus rates, at least in my experience. Many of the testing and validation systems sold to the OEM's are quite sophisticated, much more so than the AIM equipment, but the AiM stuff works very well for the track day/HPDE/Club Racing driver, for sure. Maximum sample rate for few channels is 100Hz, not aware of any beyond that. The bus speed can be as much a 1 Mbit/s on more modern cars, but that's a different measure.
No question that you'll get really good info from your upgrade to a Solo 2 DL. It's a neat piece and works really well. Now, they just need to finalize the release version of the firmware and hopefully start shipping this month...
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05-07-2018, 05:18 PM
#39
As a longtime AiM (and many other lines) equipment dealer, I'm not yet aware of any system that can be configured via WiFi or Bluetooth using an iOS app or device.
Some systems (like the VBOX Sport and the HD2) can adjust or select settings in the unit, but you can't build a configuration and send it to an AiM or any other device (except for the RaceCapture Pro products, the RacePak CL1 and Race Navigator) from an iOS device , much less wirelessly.
With the introduction in November of 2014 of the AiM MXL2/MXS/MXG series of display loggers, as well as the EVO5 logger, AiM has offered WiFi connectivity for configuration and management from a Windows PC. The Solo 2 has limited configurability and of course, data downloads and live measures monitored ONLY through WiFi, as will the Solo 2 DL. The iOS app for basic analysis has already been mocked up for testing, similar to the MyChron5 recall screens, IIRC.
As far as polling or sniffing data from the vehicle CANBus, it depends on the car and the sample rate of the individual channels. OBDII connectivity in vehicles, even if some of the CANBus info is available at the J1979 connector, is sampled at less than Vehicle CANBus rates, at least in my experience. Many of the testing and validation systems sold to the OEM's are quite sophisticated, much more so than the AIM equipment, but the AiM stuff works very well for the track day/HPDE/Club Racing driver, for sure. Maximum sample rate for few channels is 100Hz, not aware of any beyond that. The bus speed can be as much a 1 Mbit/s on more modern cars, but that's a different measure.
No question that you'll get really good info from your upgrade to a Solo 2 DL. It's a neat piece and works really well. Now, they just need to finalize the release version of the firmware and hopefully start shipping this month...
Some systems (like the VBOX Sport and the HD2) can adjust or select settings in the unit, but you can't build a configuration and send it to an AiM or any other device (except for the RaceCapture Pro products, the RacePak CL1 and Race Navigator) from an iOS device , much less wirelessly.
With the introduction in November of 2014 of the AiM MXL2/MXS/MXG series of display loggers, as well as the EVO5 logger, AiM has offered WiFi connectivity for configuration and management from a Windows PC. The Solo 2 has limited configurability and of course, data downloads and live measures monitored ONLY through WiFi, as will the Solo 2 DL. The iOS app for basic analysis has already been mocked up for testing, similar to the MyChron5 recall screens, IIRC.
As far as polling or sniffing data from the vehicle CANBus, it depends on the car and the sample rate of the individual channels. OBDII connectivity in vehicles, even if some of the CANBus info is available at the J1979 connector, is sampled at less than Vehicle CANBus rates, at least in my experience. Many of the testing and validation systems sold to the OEM's are quite sophisticated, much more so than the AIM equipment, but the AiM stuff works very well for the track day/HPDE/Club Racing driver, for sure. Maximum sample rate for few channels is 100Hz, not aware of any beyond that. The bus speed can be as much a 1 Mbit/s on more modern cars, but that's a different measure.
No question that you'll get really good info from your upgrade to a Solo 2 DL. It's a neat piece and works really well. Now, they just need to finalize the release version of the firmware and hopefully start shipping this month...
Regarding polling data, I think it's important to distinguish between OBDII and CAN. OBDII is a diagnostic protocol. CAN is a network / bus architecture. In most cases the data gathered via OBDII protocol is actually transmitted on a CAN bus. There is constant data flying around the CAN bus, in use by all the various ECU's in the vehicle. This data is transmitted whether you have a logger attached to the OBDII port or not. OBDII is only active if there is a device attached and diagnostic service requests are being generated. In OBDII you first ask for data, then you wait for a positive response from the ECU to say that it saw / heard your request, and then you wait for the ECU to actually send the data. If you have the database file to decode the river of data on the CAN bus you could log wheel speeds at 100Hz (most common rate I've seen). If you have to use OBDII to poll the brake controller and ask for wheel speeds you are likely to receive them at 20-30Hz due to the delay in the request / reply structure.
Closing the loop...I believe this is the difference in AiM configuration between OBDII and direct-wire. I exchanged a few emails with AiM tech support to understand what was different between using the CAN bus at the OBDII port and directly wiring into the CAN bus at the gateway module. Because Porsche vehicles utilize a combination of CAN, CAN FD, and Ethernet for ECU communication the gateway module exists to convert bus types so ECU's can share data. The CAN line at the OBDII port exists only for OBDII communication. The direct-wire harness taps into a different CAN bus which is between the gateway and other ECU's in the vehicle, thus containing a lot more data at higher rates.
And for what it's worth, I asked about tools and AiM uses the same software tool I do for reverse engineering CAN databases. It's also a standard development software / tool for GM, Ford, and and Jaguar-LandRover. So in that regard they are equal to the OEMs.
05-07-2018, 05:45 PM
#40
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What's interesting is that the wireless communications for the MXL2/MXG/MXS have been substantially improved and made quite robust after the first year or two. So much so that now, I routinely perform firmware updates and transmit config changes wirelessly without fear!
One of the reasons why it took as long as it did was because of AiM's desire to make SURE the unit wouldn't "brick" if there was an interruption, so the data is sent, then checked, then unpacked, error checked all the way.
Actually, most modern cars use several different CAN buses; powertrain, body control (brakes and stability), comfort (HVAC, seating, lights) among others. Not all of this information is present on each CAN bus of the car, as you know.
Typically, the information AiM loggers are interested in resides on the PT1 and PT2 buses, and you can see the development Porsche made in intra-car CAN message transfer through the years looking at AiM's protocols and where they connect to the car.
In the beginning, the bus that AiM needed was between the ECU and the instrument cluster, which still is usually PT1 in most cars. Now, there's much more interplay between multiple control modules (ECU's) for a variety of tasks within the car.
I can tell you that if you poll (instead of sniff) some vehicle's CANs, in a direct wire instance, you can seriously disrupt things! That's why Racelogic (one of the largest OEM testing and validation equipment manufacturers) allows you to uncheck "send acknowledge" PID's, in a config.
Not only is there a difference in AiM configuration sampling rates but also channels available when connected to direct wire over the OBDII connection on the car. As you say, the direct wire contains a LOT more data, at HIGHER rates.
Where they (and other aftermarket companies) are NOT equal to the OEMs is that they don't have a list of all the proprietary code flowing through the CAN, some of which may be encrypted, or so I've heard.
And that's why you, me, Joe Hullett and others sniff these networks to try and associate ID's with channels on the car! Cheers.
One of the reasons why it took as long as it did was because of AiM's desire to make SURE the unit wouldn't "brick" if there was an interruption, so the data is sent, then checked, then unpacked, error checked all the way.
Actually, most modern cars use several different CAN buses; powertrain, body control (brakes and stability), comfort (HVAC, seating, lights) among others. Not all of this information is present on each CAN bus of the car, as you know.
Typically, the information AiM loggers are interested in resides on the PT1 and PT2 buses, and you can see the development Porsche made in intra-car CAN message transfer through the years looking at AiM's protocols and where they connect to the car.
In the beginning, the bus that AiM needed was between the ECU and the instrument cluster, which still is usually PT1 in most cars. Now, there's much more interplay between multiple control modules (ECU's) for a variety of tasks within the car.
I can tell you that if you poll (instead of sniff) some vehicle's CANs, in a direct wire instance, you can seriously disrupt things! That's why Racelogic (one of the largest OEM testing and validation equipment manufacturers) allows you to uncheck "send acknowledge" PID's, in a config.
Not only is there a difference in AiM configuration sampling rates but also channels available when connected to direct wire over the OBDII connection on the car. As you say, the direct wire contains a LOT more data, at HIGHER rates.
Where they (and other aftermarket companies) are NOT equal to the OEMs is that they don't have a list of all the proprietary code flowing through the CAN, some of which may be encrypted, or so I've heard.
And that's why you, me, Joe Hullett and others sniff these networks to try and associate ID's with channels on the car! Cheers.
05-08-2018, 02:21 AM
#41
Scooby,
Thanks for spending the time to reply. I would really like to get a better understanding how to use my AIM dash. Its on my list of goals.
Racing the car has a lot of time involved just to get through the day.
Thanks for spending the time to reply. I would really like to get a better understanding how to use my AIM dash. Its on my list of goals.
Racing the car has a lot of time involved just to get through the day.
05-08-2018, 11:36 AM
#42
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I'm sure Matt will pipe in with more good information, but there are many resources available to you to better understand how to use your AiM dash.
Videos from Roger Caddell at AiM Sports on YouTube, James Colborn's videos, classes and webinars from a variety of good folks.
Matt's site: trailbrake.net My site's esource page is updated frequently here: http://peterkrause.net/Krause_%26_As...Resources.html
There are three parts of the understanding that all go together to make it easy to use while ON track, between sessions, and to maintain it.
The first is configuration of the unit so that it shows you the most valuable info WHEN you need it, and records information properly, accurately and so you can find it later. Usually, this happens only ONCE.
The second is downloading the information it collects, then arranging this information in simple "pages" or User Profiles of just a few things on each page, in a way you can learn by looking, not digging.
While the downloading happens all the time, the arranging of the information can happen only ONCE.
The third is learning maintenance for the system, periodically removing files so there's room to record more (not a problem on anything that's been sold in the last few years), loading tracks you go to so everything is automatic and you don't have to mess with it at the track.
The largest part of my business expansion selling AiM, Racelogic, Motec and others is simplifying these steps so they DON'T ADD WORK or more items on the checklist for both individuals being their own crew at the track and especially, SHOPS, who have plenty on their plate without adding more stuff to do.
Videos from Roger Caddell at AiM Sports on YouTube, James Colborn's videos, classes and webinars from a variety of good folks.
Matt's site: trailbrake.net My site's esource page is updated frequently here: http://peterkrause.net/Krause_%26_As...Resources.html
There are three parts of the understanding that all go together to make it easy to use while ON track, between sessions, and to maintain it.
The first is configuration of the unit so that it shows you the most valuable info WHEN you need it, and records information properly, accurately and so you can find it later. Usually, this happens only ONCE.
The second is downloading the information it collects, then arranging this information in simple "pages" or User Profiles of just a few things on each page, in a way you can learn by looking, not digging.
While the downloading happens all the time, the arranging of the information can happen only ONCE.
The third is learning maintenance for the system, periodically removing files so there's room to record more (not a problem on anything that's been sold in the last few years), loading tracks you go to so everything is automatic and you don't have to mess with it at the track.
The largest part of my business expansion selling AiM, Racelogic, Motec and others is simplifying these steps so they DON'T ADD WORK or more items on the checklist for both individuals being their own crew at the track and especially, SHOPS, who have plenty on their plate without adding more stuff to do.
05-08-2018, 12:29 PM
#43
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Completely agree with Peter's post above. The only part that I would add is a fourth level of data - after track analysis. This is the part where you are able to take more time, see trends, check things that take more digging, and make plans for the next outing.
The goal at the track is fast analysis where you can pick the lowest hanging fruit that will make the most difference NOW. Then once you have a focus, it's making a plan to address the problem, and then using the data to review and see the results. Classic Plan > Do > Review cycle.
The goal at the track is fast analysis where you can pick the lowest hanging fruit that will make the most difference NOW. Then once you have a focus, it's making a plan to address the problem, and then using the data to review and see the results. Classic Plan > Do > Review cycle.