sugarwood

I was sharing a Youtube dashcam video with a few friends where the driver oversteers and goes off the road.
One friend replied saying how the driver was a fool and that he would have had no problem correcting any oversteer situation.

Mind you, this friend has never even owned a RWD performance car.
Moreover, he has never done a track day or Autocross event.
How common is this "beer muscles" confidence in non-existent fantasy race car skills ?
I wondered where this irrational confidence come from? Reading internet?

I asked the guy, "How many times in the last 10 years have you saved a car from oversteer doing 70 mph on a highway?"
I then answered my own question, "I’ll tell you. ZERO."

Many guys, including myself, have spent many teen hours doing blizzard parking lot fishtails, and developed some intuition about counter-steering,
But, doing snow day fishtails as a kid does is not the same as correcting oversteer doing 70mph on a highway.
Neither is a 20 minute session on a skid pad in 2nd gear. I don't think it's the same.

I think it's very easy to be a monday morning QB.
Correcting oversteer is a skill. Skills in sports take thousands of reps to develop.
Most people, even active DE guys, don't routinely get the opportunity to practice recovering control at 70mph.
My guess is that you get one chance to correct oversteer at speed...every few years.
So, I don't think anyone is an expert.

How can people even develop this skill ? How do you practice correcting oversteer at 70mph? Or do you not?
When you see track cam footage of a guy losing it, do you instantly assume the driver was a clueless newb?
I've seen dashcam crashes of full blown guttted racecars, which implies the driver is not a total newb.
Even pro drivers do crash once in a while. Are they clueless? I doubt it.

I am only talking about the actual act of correcting oversteer, not the bad decisions that might have put the driver in that situation.
That I agree one has a lot more control over that (don't tailgate, brake in a straight line, no speeding on cold tires, don't speed in the rain, etc)

Also, the friend instantly assumed that the car could have been saved.
To me, sometimes it can be corrected, but some times, it can't, no matter who is driving.
We've all seen the infinite pendulum death spiral where a driver just can't get the car straight again.

jscott82

All men think they are great at 3 things..
1) Sex
2) Driving
3)

Veloce Raptor

3) Shooting

mark kibort

"oversteer" is NOT always, the car being out of control. There are two types of oversteer, the type that can not be controlled and the kind that can be controlled. If there is too much energy vs the grip in the rear and front end no correction can save it. this is usually driver induced unless you get tapped in the rear bumper . Anyone can put a car in oversteer. the skill is bringing the car back from oversteer when you have "controllable oversteer". many, even racers, do NOT have a good skill in recovering oversteer because they dont understand, react in panic (too fast , too much input) or have not practiced the steering input to recover, which is i like to describe, as a "string" being tied from the steering to the rear end. the rate and amount of recovery has to be matched and be in synch. ever see a tank slapper or a spin the opposite direction of the initial oversteer, the driver got it wrong and is NOT in synch.

practice at slower speeds , at different degree of throttle and steering, and learn to recover, and eventually, it will be second nature. its the most satisfying parts of driving on the track.

Wild Weasel

I honestly don't know anyone that would make a claim like that. Anyone can offer an opinion on what might have worked, but I don't know anyone who, with no experience whatsoever, would claim to be able to do it.

Is he an expert at everything he's never done, or just performance driving?

I'm sure he's fun at parties.

sugarwood

Yes, but I am saying that certain oversteering situations are out of control. The magazine racer is going to think "just counter lock" and you'll save the car. Just like on TV. I think the reality is not such a recipe. Even pro race drivers crash sometimes.

sugarwood

Well, I doubt he's ever tried to correct oversteer at 70 mph, but he's probably done a lot of snow driving,
where he's corrected oversteer while turning into the grocery store parking lot.
My guess is he thinks it's the exact same thing at 15 mph and 70 mph.

Wild Weasel

Yes. That is all correct.

In your original post you simply said that oversteer meant the car was out of control, which obviously isn't always the case. This clarification sets it straight.

gbuff

Watch "Lap of the Gods" and see how "out of control" Sideways Stefan is.......just about the entire time.

Gary

fleadh

Not all oversteer situations are created equally.

-mike

certz

Grilling

Gofishracing

subscribed

jscott82

Well said!

Veloce Raptor

Here in Texas, where animal husbandry is a popular college major; oversteer and understeer have some very different meanings

audipwr1

Rally school

:close thread