Driver training options
12-14-2017, 08:19 AM
#16
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There have been several articles on video self coaching in Speed Secrets Weekly, an inexpensive email subscription that offers this and other types of information that would help you, specifically.
The combination of the Solo DL and the seamless and automated integration with “intelligent video,” video with performance metrics ALREADY on it for instant review, is superb. Be glad to offer you a “new user” discount if you’d like to purchase individually or as a set, pre configured and ready to go!
Thank you, Tom
12-14-2017, 10:05 AM
#17
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When I talk about seamless integration, I'm talking about avoiding using third-party software to "mix" the data collected by a logger like the MXL and video collected by a "dumb" camera (plain video, no information on it) like a GoPro, Contour or other inexpensive dash cam. The SmartyCam has a computer IN IT, with it's own operating system, that writes or encodes the data ONTO the video, REAL-TIME, so that thirty seconds after you're back in the paddock, you pull the card and watch a fully featured, "intelligent" (video with measures ON it already) video, and make a decision on the greatest variation between what you're seeing yourself DO and what you THOUGHT you did. By zeroing in on one or two great variations EACH session, you can make progress MUCH faster.
There is a wonderful piece of software that compares SCHD video side by side for good analysis, CompareMYLaps, by Joris Mans.
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-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
12-14-2017, 11:16 AM
#18
Racer
Thread Starter
As far as full video systems go, how does the SCHD compare to what vbox offers in terms of usability of the software and hardware, price, and video quality.
This is probably best asked elsewhere, but do yo have any suggestions for mounting the SCHD (or any other I guess) in a car w/o a cage or harness bar?
This is probably best asked elsewhere, but do yo have any suggestions for mounting the SCHD (or any other I guess) in a car w/o a cage or harness bar?
12-14-2017, 12:20 PM
#19
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As far as full video systems go, how does the SCHD compare to what vbox offers in terms of usability of the software and hardware, price, and video quality.
This is probably best asked elsewhere, but do yo have any suggestions for mounting the SCHD (or any other I guess) in a car w/o a cage or harness bar?
This is probably best asked elsewhere, but do yo have any suggestions for mounting the SCHD (or any other I guess) in a car w/o a cage or harness bar?
Simple answer is that the 720P (1280 x 720) SmartyCam must be used with accessories or, better yet, a logger, to be able to generate usable information and function in the car. Least expensive setup for the SmartyCam with power, RPM (and other measures, if you have a newer car), Lap information and speed is about $1400. For around $300 more, you can combine it with a Solo DL (or in a few months, a Solo 2 DL) which adds logging, or recording of the measures from the car and in general, and a small display you can use for immediate driver performance feedback. The video is generated separately from the data (strip charts, scatter plots, colored maps, etc) and s playable without any software on an Apple or a Windows laptop with measures already on it. The data is downloaded separately and viewable with a free program in Windows only (right now).
For just under twice that, the 1080p (1920 x 1080 for each) Video VBOX HD2 is available with single or dual (picture in picture) with ONE box doing it all. The video with all info is playable like a SmartyCam Video, but all the information is on ONE chip. The analysis has proven to be much easier to learn to navigate and more intuitive to “find time,” with the added benefit of automatically synced video AND side by side video comparison to SEE what you did better in areas of the course, down to the HEADING of the car at any particular point. Plus, the software is Apple native and Windows native. Plus wireless aiming, better sound and other features that justify the price.
A number of people question the price of these technology tools, but to me, it’s an investment in your development as a safe, quick and ever improving driver, equally of value to a DE driver as it is to a racer. My goal is to teach people to coach themselves, using objective, non judgmental data, the best of which is “intelligent video.”
Suction cup mounts from RAM hanging the camera upside down from the rear glass or inside the rear quarter window works well for me.
Email me or call me and I’d be glad to help!
12-14-2017, 12:31 PM
#20
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I find systems with an in car display of predicted lap time, +/- best lap, or even rolling lap time (which is a little harder to use) helps people the most when combined with later data/video review. The immediate feedback on a corner, chicane, or sector really helps people have that direct, timely feedback. When working on things, it allows self coaching in the moment, not after that fact. We use that immediate feedback in all sorts of other things - mirrors in the gym, underlined words spelled wrong, audible noises from programs, etc. - to speed up the learning process. The same applies in car. When you learn how to use the tools, it's just like having a person in the car with you.
12-14-2017, 12:39 PM
#21
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One of the keys. When you figure what you spend for a weekend at the track, the price of the data system is not very much.
I find systems with an in car display of predicted lap time, +/- best lap, or even rolling lap time (which is a little harder to use) helps people the most when combined with later data/video review. The immediate feedback on a corner, chicane, or sector really helps people have that direct, timely feedback. When working on things, it allows self coaching in the moment, not after that fact. We use that immediate feedback in all sorts of other things - mirrors in the gym, underlined words spelled wrong, audible noises from programs, etc. - to speed up the learning process. The same applies in car. When you learn how to use the tools, it's just like having a person in the car with you.
I find systems with an in car display of predicted lap time, +/- best lap, or even rolling lap time (which is a little harder to use) helps people the most when combined with later data/video review. The immediate feedback on a corner, chicane, or sector really helps people have that direct, timely feedback. When working on things, it allows self coaching in the moment, not after that fact. We use that immediate feedback in all sorts of other things - mirrors in the gym, underlined words spelled wrong, audible noises from programs, etc. - to speed up the learning process. The same applies in car. When you learn how to use the tools, it's just like having a person in the car with you.
A totally objective, factually based and unerringly accurate person in the car with you!
12-14-2017, 05:45 PM
#22
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Tom, you should be able to connect the SCHD directly to the MXL and get all the information the MXL is getting, GPS Speed, track position, lap timing, lap count, g's, throttle and brake (if you have those sensors) and power. The MXL would turn on and off the SCHD and the SCHD could be set up to automatically start and stop recording with speed. One cable from a Data Hub (if the antenna is connected to the MXL) or to the MXL (if the antenna is connected to the SmartyCam).
When I talk about seamless integration, I'm talking about avoiding using third-party software to "mix" the data collected by a logger like the MXL and video collected by a "dumb" camera (plain video, no information on it) like a GoPro, Contour or other inexpensive dash cam. The SmartyCam has a computer IN IT, with it's own operating system, that writes or encodes the data ONTO the video, REAL-TIME, so that thirty seconds after you're back in the paddock, you pull the card and watch a fully featured, "intelligent" (video with measures ON it already) video, and make a decision on the greatest variation between what you're seeing yourself DO and what you THOUGHT you did. By zeroing in on one or two great variations EACH session, you can make progress MUCH faster.
There is a wonderful piece of software that compares SCHD video side by side for good analysis, CompareMYLaps, by Joris Mans.
When I talk about seamless integration, I'm talking about avoiding using third-party software to "mix" the data collected by a logger like the MXL and video collected by a "dumb" camera (plain video, no information on it) like a GoPro, Contour or other inexpensive dash cam. The SmartyCam has a computer IN IT, with it's own operating system, that writes or encodes the data ONTO the video, REAL-TIME, so that thirty seconds after you're back in the paddock, you pull the card and watch a fully featured, "intelligent" (video with measures ON it already) video, and make a decision on the greatest variation between what you're seeing yourself DO and what you THOUGHT you did. By zeroing in on one or two great variations EACH session, you can make progress MUCH faster.
There is a wonderful piece of software that compares SCHD video side by side for good analysis, CompareMYLaps, by Joris Mans.
I appreciate responding to my question which I now realize was too general. I have all of the above inputs in the MXL output embedded into the SmartyCam Video. I was looking for a way to compare separate laps side-by-side and you astutely provide the answer with CompareMYLaps.
At LRP, Simon and I worked on getting the Porsche 944 to have less understeer. It was much better and I could sense the difference because the tire resistance forces feedback to the steering wheel was significantly less, easier to hold the steering wheel and unwind the steering wheel in "Big Bend." So I can compare my session after the changes with Simon's session to see where i was losing time to Simon. I have the video and plan use the demo CompareMYLaps to do it a couple of days.
I am investigating the modifications needed to have the race car have a very slight understeer, it is not there yet. Then setting the priorities on the upgrades that are going to make the best value-added improvements. Then, Simon and I are testing the race car in 2018.
Thank you,
Tom
12-14-2017, 06:02 PM
#23
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Hi Peter,
At LRP, Simon and I worked on getting the Porsche 944 to have less understeer. It was much better and I could sense the difference because the tire resistance forces feedback to the steering wheel was significantly less, easier to hold the steering wheel and unwind the steering wheel in "Big Bend." So I can compare my session after the changes with Simon's session to see where i was losing time to Simon. I have the video and plan use the demo CompareMYLaps to do it a couple of days.
Thank you,
Tom
At LRP, Simon and I worked on getting the Porsche 944 to have less understeer. It was much better and I could sense the difference because the tire resistance forces feedback to the steering wheel was significantly less, easier to hold the steering wheel and unwind the steering wheel in "Big Bend." So I can compare my session after the changes with Simon's session to see where i was losing time to Simon. I have the video and plan use the demo CompareMYLaps to do it a couple of days.
Thank you,
Tom
Simon is gem. We enjoy our time together and I know you enjoy yours with him.
12-14-2017, 09:43 PM
#24
Racer
Thread Starter
This gives me a lot to think about and a little research to do. I'll be in contact once I catch up on some of the reading you've recommended.
12-14-2017, 10:21 PM
#25
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My wife came into the room and said "who are you screaming at?!"
I was watching videos of races I had been in a couple of years ago and screaming things like "why are you on the brake?!", "get on the gas you pu$$y!", "what is wrong with you - pass that guy!"
I'm my harshest critic.
Accordingly, to ABT's point, video is an awesome tool as it doesn't lie.
I was watching videos of races I had been in a couple of years ago and screaming things like "why are you on the brake?!", "get on the gas you pu$$y!", "what is wrong with you - pass that guy!"
I'm my harshest critic.
Accordingly, to ABT's point, video is an awesome tool as it doesn't lie.
But it's a great point. To learn, you need to be aware of both what you need to do and what you are actually doing.
12-19-2017, 12:08 AM
#26
Instructor
I'm a bit late to this discussion, but I have to disagree with the PCA fanclub (no offense to anyone).
The PCA system starts a student with straight line braking, no trail braking, and very little/few car control drills. So you basically end up learning a few bad habits and those habits are reinforced until you move out of green, out of blue, then into yellow group where they then say that they have been teaching you the wrong way to brake and turn and now you need to unlearn those habits and learn the correct methods.
If you attend a 2 or 3 day racing school, they will teach you all the basics correctly from the beginning. Obviously, you won't master them in 3 days, but most importantly, you will learn them correctly and you won't waste your first year or two driving incorrectly. You also won't have to waste 6 months or more unlearning the wrong habits.
If you add up the costs of driving 2 years worth of HPDE's and realize that much of that is wasted money when taught incorrectly compared to a proper 3 day school, the 3 day school is actually cheaper. You will be further ahead in your pursuit of doing it right and being good at it by attending a school first. You will be a much better driver in a few months (and faster) by attending a school first and then practicing those skills at the HPDE's.
The PCA program is great for people that just want to go out and have fun driving on a track safely. It is by no means anywhere near the same quality or value of a real racing school. But it is free. You get what you paid for...
Several Skip Barber instructors recently started a new school in Illinois, you should check into their programs. Their programs are time tested and produce race champions.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorspo...racing-school/
The PCA system starts a student with straight line braking, no trail braking, and very little/few car control drills. So you basically end up learning a few bad habits and those habits are reinforced until you move out of green, out of blue, then into yellow group where they then say that they have been teaching you the wrong way to brake and turn and now you need to unlearn those habits and learn the correct methods.
If you attend a 2 or 3 day racing school, they will teach you all the basics correctly from the beginning. Obviously, you won't master them in 3 days, but most importantly, you will learn them correctly and you won't waste your first year or two driving incorrectly. You also won't have to waste 6 months or more unlearning the wrong habits.
If you add up the costs of driving 2 years worth of HPDE's and realize that much of that is wasted money when taught incorrectly compared to a proper 3 day school, the 3 day school is actually cheaper. You will be further ahead in your pursuit of doing it right and being good at it by attending a school first. You will be a much better driver in a few months (and faster) by attending a school first and then practicing those skills at the HPDE's.
The PCA program is great for people that just want to go out and have fun driving on a track safely. It is by no means anywhere near the same quality or value of a real racing school. But it is free. You get what you paid for...
Several Skip Barber instructors recently started a new school in Illinois, you should check into their programs. Their programs are time tested and produce race champions.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorspo...racing-school/
12-19-2017, 09:15 AM
#27
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Several Skip Barber instructors recently started a new school in Illinois, you should check into their programs. Their programs are time tested and produce race champions.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorspo...racing-school/
http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorspo...racing-school/
LevelUp is running a three-day program at Atlanta Motorsports Park this weekend, and with MX-5 cars supplied by Todd Lamb, so they're branching out. Founder Peter Stolz is joined by Stevie D (DeBrecht), Terry Lee (Earwood), Keith Watts and JP (Jim Pace, who won GTU at the Rolex 24 in 1992 and BOTH the Rolex 24 and the Sebring 12 Hour OVERALL in 1996). They are based out of Road America, where Peter lives, but they travel now.
Before LevelUp, there was the first ex-Skippy personnel school, the Lucas Oil School of Racing, led by Todd Snyder and joined by several other Senior SBRS Instructors such as Randy Buck, Jonatan Jorge, JP and others. They've got some wonderful Formula cars with video and data and follow the seasons up and down the East Coast. Good events starting off in Florida next month.
Then, there is the metamorphosis of Dennis Macchio's excellent Bertil Roos School, who have recently added to staff for West Palm Beach schools TWO ex-SBRS stalwarts, Bruce MacInnes and Divina Galica.
Many of the ex-SBRS West Coast crowd are (and have been) teaching out of SimRaceWay at Sonoma and also staff Allen Berg's excellent formula car school program.
I agree with the idea that teaching alternate approaches to executing fundamental skills, based on experience level, is incorrect and a huge time waste.
I also agree that a pro school, especially a well-vetted (and staffed with tried, tested and proven professional instructors) IS the best investment drivers of any kind, HPDE, track day, time trials, club racing, entry level pro racing, can make.
Lastly, I often get requests from either people starting out or with little experience, seeking to work together and "bypass" the attendance of a professional school. As gently as I can, I always counsel to those folks that, for us to make the best use of our time together, they MUST be well versed in the best execution of fundamental skills, i.e. have attended either a LOT of volunteer DE, been racing or possessing some significant experience in a learning environment or, better yet, have attended one of the above schools (or Bondurant/Spring Mountain/etc). It makes SO much of a difference if folks HAVE started with car control exercises (the FIRST thing in the SBRS curriculum) to our success.
12-19-2017, 09:24 AM
#28
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12-19-2017, 10:44 AM
#29
Racer
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Before LevelUp, there was the first ex-Skippy personnel school, the Lucas Oil School of Racing, led by Todd Snyder and joined by several other Senior SBRS Instructors such as Randy Buck, Jonatan Jorge, JP and others. They've got some wonderful Formula cars with video and data and follow the seasons up and down the East Coast. Good events starting off in Florida next month.
Lastly, I often get requests from either people starting out or with little experience, seeking to work together and "bypass" the attendance of a professional school. As gently as I can, I always counsel to those folks that, for us to make the best use of our time together, they MUST be well versed in the best execution of fundamental skills, i.e. have attended either a LOT of volunteer DE, been racing or possessing some significant experience in a learning environment or, better yet, have attended one of the above schools (or Bondurant/Spring Mountain/etc). It makes SO much of a difference if folks HAVE started with car control exercises (the FIRST thing in the SBRS curriculum) to our success.
Lastly, I often get requests from either people starting out or with little experience, seeking to work together and "bypass" the attendance of a professional school. As gently as I can, I always counsel to those folks that, for us to make the best use of our time together, they MUST be well versed in the best execution of fundamental skills, i.e. have attended either a LOT of volunteer DE, been racing or possessing some significant experience in a learning environment or, better yet, have attended one of the above schools (or Bondurant/Spring Mountain/etc). It makes SO much of a difference if folks HAVE started with car control exercises (the FIRST thing in the SBRS curriculum) to our success.
The last part is useful to read.
Also, I've checked out the racecarcoaches website a few times and I'm really glad that sort of thing exists. The racing school directory that was recently posted too was very helpful as well.
As a matter of personal taste I dislike contacting somebody directly for a long form quote for something when I'm not eminently planning a purchase. Just for reference, what should somebody expect to pay for a professional coach on the high and low ends?
12-19-2017, 11:00 AM
#30
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At the risk of buttonholing the industry, I've seen hobbyists and people who do it for fun charge as little as $300/day, pro racers between rides (or aspiring pro drivers with a blog to their credit) charging $500-$750/day.
But, the normal range for the people I consider my peers is between $1200-$2000/day.
I have seen some (whom I do not consider peers as a coach, but who may have participated in an internationally recognized series, a LeMans class win or significant championship(s) to their credit) charging as much as $4500/day (?!?!?). <big grin>
Everyone who considers a professional coach should do their homework, conduct interviews, get references, et cetera.