BillNye

I’d like to get a little advice on my “best” path to being a “good” driver. I’m not (for now) interested in doing any competitive events or the lifestyle changes to make track days more than a hobby (truck/trailer, R compounds, traveling more than 2-3hrs to an event). That said, I enjoy being “good” at things. My goal for “good” is to be able to set consistent lap times near the limit of any particular (street) car.

For some background, I’m new to HPDE but not completely green to performance driving in general. I did karting for 6-7yrs as a kid and some autocross (albeit more than 5yrs ago). I’d like to think I have a pretty good feel for what a car is doing and no bad habits, but as far as driving enthusiasts go I’m average at best. I think my skill is currently at a level that generic “do this, not that” advice isn’t going to help and I need a little more personalized instruction to identify where I’m lacking and what I need to do differently to improve.

I know I have a few options, with a professional coach and rented track at one end of the spectrum, having an instructor ride along @ a track day on the other end, and an advanced driving school somewhere in the middle (at least in terms of cost). While I’ve never gotten a quote from a pro, I’m pretty sure I can’t afford that level of instruction, nor am I good enough to warrant it. As I’m mostly interested in a hobby basis with a somewhat limited budget, I’d rather spread costs out over a season at several events with seat time in my own car than 1 weekend at a driving school.

This would seem to leave an instructor ride-along @ a track day as my only option. I’ve been led to believe that instructor ride-alongs are a mixed bag ranging from only helpful in making sure the driver is safe and following the rules to great coaching to be faster. I can appreciate the need for both, and I’m sure at any particular track day there is more people who need the former than instructors who can provide the latter.

As such, what is the best way to find a good instructor who can help me improve? And, is there any options in between? Whats the best way to head toward my goal?

Thanks for the help.

Thundermoose

In general, PCA instruction via HPDE's is pretty good. I'd just go that route. Within every region, I am sure there are better instructors than others. You should be able to learn more at the events and/or talk with CDI to get paired up with the best coach for you.

I had about two years of instruction with various groups (I am a slow learner) and I was very happy with anyone that got in the right seat.

LuigiVampa

Based upon the limits of your time and budget I would agree with Thundermoose. Many of the PCA instructors can help get you to the next level and perhaps once the bug really takes hold you can move up to some personalized coaching.

Good luck.

Jabs1542

I agree with Thundermoose and Luigi.

Note that while you may feel your instructor isn't pushing you enough you may not realize that your instructor is aware that you aren't ready for that next tip. As an example some people want to learn advanced techniques like trail-brake oversteer before they ever mastered car control and balance. A good instructor knows when you are ready for that next step.

dgrobs

Another vote for PCA instruction at the DE's.
I am an average track driver like you say you are.
Blue/White at familiar tracks and Yellow at new to me tracks.
I cannot begin to tell you how much the PCA Instructors have helped me each and every time they've been in my right seat.
Yes, some are better than others, but all of them were of tremendous help to me.
If you find one you like, you can request that same instructor for future DE's. I know there a couple of instructors who I will be requesting next DE season.
PCA instructors are great (and you can't beat the price).
Good luck....

Der ABT

Where you located? Options for events range greatly based on location

First to be consistent, as you probably experienced in karting, seat time plays a big role....
but you also have to realize seat time should start with a good foundation in driving techniques. PCA in general has some great instructors that can really help make sure your safe and learning. Next step up is getting a coach, doesnt have to be a pro racer you see on TV, but there are several driving coaches active on the forums that either do a data and video approach or right seat and can really help fastrack the learning curve, they can really accelerate your learning and point out things that feel counter intuitive ....will give you a really good base of knowledge to work from and be able to self coach off of afterwards....talk to a few and find one that you enjoy talking to, having someone you want to listen to and can have a good time with makes learning easier.

VIDEO.....cheapest and easiest way to start grabbing data and to use as a measure to base improvement from.....I still look at videos from years ago and shake my head.

then laptimers and other driving aides (aim solo, apex pro, vbox) etc can take it a step further and actively give you feed back in car thru predictive laptiming .

while coaches and data systems aren't cheap....If you drive for a few years, you will probably end up trying one or both and the go......why did i wait so long to use them.

ProCoach

LuigiVampa

My wife came into the room and said "who are you screaming at?!"

I was watching videos of races I had been in a couple of years ago and screaming things like "why are you on the brake?!", "get on the gas you pu$$y!", "what is wrong with you - pass that guy!"

I'm my harshest critic.

Accordingly, to ABT's point, video is an awesome tool as it doesn't lie.

ProCoach

Hahaha! Well, that happens every time I sit down with drivers after a session!

Seriously, basic no-frills video is not generally enough. Even video with just speed and g's will give you a LOT to work on, and if it has throttle, RPM (for picking gear selection properly, according to speed) and even brakes, it's a VERY valuable tool.

I've built my entire coaching business around the objective measure of every control input a driver does, in the car and on the track. The best part is most learn relatively quickly how to coach themselves using these tools.

BillNye

Thanks for the responses everybody, it sounds like a PCA membership is in my future.
I'm in the metro-Detroit area. Thankfully, there are several tracks that hold regular (seasonal) events. Grattan, Gingerman, Waterford Hills, and M1 Concourse are all close by.

This sounds like what I had in mind. Glad to know I'm headed in the right direction.

Do you (or anybody else) have any good resources for what to look for when reviewing video? I've watched track-day footage before but never got much out of it, probably because I don't know what I'm looking for necessarily. I've read some of the (great) data analysis articles that were published by the professionals that regularly post here, but they seemed to focus on reading the data and less on what to look for in video.

I've had to analyze hot lap ECU data for component testing before and find it quite fascinating. I've convinced myself that I really want a Solo DL to record ECU data and based on the ability to integrate/upgrade with their other systems in the future.

Veloce Raptor

Coming to this thread late. I concur with Der ABT. I coach full time both in car and via data and video, and like Peter, enjoy helping folks learn how to objectively self coach. But for now, I agree that the PCA route is probably the best current option for you.

ProCoach

Gary R.

Lot's of good advice, just wanted to say I used to love your show!

Der ABT

If you are bill nye I grew up with your nephew haha

pro coach and VR both have alot of laps around everywhere and are great resources... I'm new to the coaching business but it's alot of fun and work.

VIDEO
to me when I was just doing DE, video was more of an assisted mental practice.....before each session I visualise where i want the car to be a whole lap......as you get more comfortable start incorporating more variables, pedal pressure, the voice of the instructor or coach.....data tells me I can do this 7mph faster,....
when I got home or to the hotel, out came the cables and tapes and sit have a beverage or food an watch each other's video and get possible adjustments

try to watch video and see how early you can detect mistakes....line adjustments etc.

I can even remember going thru and having to estimate lap times of time elapsed before I has a timer

the more you get hooked the more you will start doing this kind of review as soon as you get outta the car/home when it is fresh.

you can tell when a student reviewed video, start self critiquing and in general do better

BillNye

Unfortunately, for all of us, I am not the real Bill Nye. But I'm sure he appreciates the kind words.

Thanks everybody for the great advice.