When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I do NOT subscribe to the idea that IF a driver is able to go back to SOME power before the apex, that there is untapped gSum potential, as some confident drivers in a well-balanced car DO go back to power to SUSTAIN the proper slip angle and achieve an earlier "exit heading lock." But the yaw rate-of-change HAS to come first. And that is often accompanied with a "no pedal" condition.
I do, on occasion do some throttle modulation prior to the corner, but I see it more as arresting the deceleration from 'coasting'. I worry that this means that I could have turned it later carrying more speed, but the trade off is getting the car pointed where I want it to be at the apex. But, thank you for the feedback.
Thanks
Ed
__________________ https://demonspeed.com/
Engineered Race and Track Products for your Porsche
To me that's what might make a miata easier to drive than a ZR1 corvette. Having never driven a miata people always say to cut your teeth there yet IMO miata driving does nothing for being fast in a high HP car where that DeltaV is huge. But what do I know I'm a slow clubracer...
Ah, but you started in a slow(er) car! I remember!
I do, on occasion do some throttle modulation prior to the corner, but I see it more as arresting the deceleration from 'coasting'. I worry that this means that I could have turned it later carrying more speed, but the trade off is getting the car pointed where I want it to be at the apex. But, thank you for the feedback.
Once in a while, even in a no hp car, you are just along for the ride, waiting for previous inputs to play out. The trick is knowing when the ride is over.
In my no-hp Mini the ride is over when the grip comes back
Hahaha! FanTAStic! I'll have to steal that. Too funny. And true...
I think this is one of the reasons why it's SO much easier to DO this in a no hp car. The speed differentials (vMax to end of braking, and beyond) are such that the driver has FAR more time to read and process...
Yes, poor word choice. That's what makes low hp, ralatively lightly sprung cars so much fun to drive. Especially for us old farts.
Another good description of the most desirable phenomena!
Ha ha, thanks Peter.....depending on the turn, oftentimes it's basically throw it in there, wait 'til it hooks up, then back to trying to put my right foot through the floor
If the "wait 'til it hooks up" part constitutes coasting, then I'm guilty as charged
If the "wait 'til it hooks up" part constitutes coasting, then I'm guilty as charged
Gary
__________________ -Peter Krause www.peterkrause.net www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
I define my coasting as "delayed throttle application"! I catch myself doing this on those occasions when I turn into a corner too early!! In these instances, transitioning to throttle results in me running out of track on exit, requiring additional brake and/or steering input to correct the exit. 'Coasting' buys me just enough time to rotate the car sufficiently to get back on full throttle safely. For me, 'coasting' is a deliberate corrective action...the better I take a corner (good line), the less I coast
Not that these are necessarily perfect, but I think this is a pretty good entry/trail brake/slight "patience" and back to full throttle in one fairly smooth motion at T11 at Laguna and T12 at COTA.
Ed, that's difficult to answer as one size does not fit all, but the best drivers I've worked with CAN'T go to throttle (as the yaw rate of change is going on) and they often DO go to modulated throttle AS THE CAR REACHES the proper heading to PRESERVE the most desirable slip angle (or yaw), THEN go on to progress to WOT.
The point at which they do this depends on the length of radius and travel, topography and consistency of radius around the corner. If you look at the GT cars in the top levels, the period of the greatest yaw is somewhere AFTER turn-in (due to brakes trailed in) and closer to the approach (last few car lengths before) or at the apex (the slower the corner, the later the yaw moment).
I do NOT subscribe to the idea that IF a driver is able to go back to SOME power before the apex, that there is untapped gSum potential, as some confident drivers in a well-balanced car DO go back to power to SUSTAIN the proper slip angle and achieve an earlier "exit heading lock." But the yaw rate-of-change HAS to come first. And that is often accompanied with a "no pedal" condition.
For sure, IF THE NOSE COMES UP before the yaw rate of change occurs (which would come from releasing brakes TOO soon, or by going back to power BEFORE the car points into the corner), THAT would be a problem.
Here's one of my favorite videos. Matt is on the throttle ever so slightly to stabilize the car through T9 and T10, but good patience and clockwork precision at the slowest corners like T11. A handful, for sure.
I have a problem with the word coasting too. i guess , i take it to mean , off the gas and in neutral, but im sure thats not what you are talking about. off throttle, and off brake, and assuming you are in gear is how i interpret it for this discussion. so yes, there are coasting points just after trail brake release where you might hesitate on the gas for a sec. however, after that you are at neutral throttle so you dont slow any further around the turn..... waiting for the point at which you can apply progressive throttle just past the apex .
Matt is a little too early on the downshifts (into 5) and a little late on the gas on many of the turn 9 segments. he does hit 4 real well... certainly could benefit from a down shift to 2nd before the corkscrew. this is causing him exit speed and control issues of the corkscrew. . I found that it is essential to do this , especially in heavier cars , to get decent position and exit speed out of the corkscrew.. subsequently in areas like turn 9, Matt has to coast as he is going too narrow to the left, as he enters, and needs to bleed off speed before he can apply steering angle and gas effectively.
Coasting for the exit of the corkscrew for example, is best if it is right after the exit WOT period and you are pointed up to the right before turn in. . this allows you to get the car slowed by engine braking alone , and positioned to get on the throttle fastest...... that's my observation. in other words, some folks will cost too much because of line or misjudgement of entrance speed to a corner.
But, if you wait until the grip has come back, you have waited too long!
My car does not feel planted if I coast. If I coast I go slower because there seems to be less grip so I agree coasting and waiting for grip is "no es bueno". I'm on the brakes, the throttle, or "both" brake and throttle. For me I'm faster that way but maybe that's not the fast way? I don't know where I am speed-wise in the club racer universe. I'm consistently mid-pak finisher at SCCA Runoffs in an under-optimized car if that helps understand where I'm coming from.
12-01-2017, 03:08 PM
