clubrcr

Am I missing something here? I too feel that the tracks are way too far for me to go unless I hired Kelly Moss or Racer's Group for support, which only adds money to the 2004 racer's budget, but what about the fairness or equality of the different years of Cup cars? For the person that owns a 1999 vs. 2004 annd can't spend the money to update the car, is he going to be competitive? In a the actual cup series, everyone races similar cars. If we have a series, then the cars should be grouped accordingly or there should be an inexpensive proposition to keep them fair. I am open for flames here, I think that PCA should have thought this through.

Am I the only one that feels this way???

78SC

If the big races were included for points purposes, it would be much easier for everyone to get in the required number of races. This would also help justify paying for all of the races up front. Maybe it will be tweaked for 2005.

JC in NY

Do you think PCA CR wants to force the Challenge drivers to "meet each other"? By carefully selecting the 10 venues, they are forcing drivers who are competing in the Cup series to run against each other at least once. It makes it more unlikely that a winner will come from a highly localized area.

James Achard

I too am bummed about the potential of loosing Enduro's for the sake of a Cup race. Sprint races don't do it for me( The term premature ejaculation comes to mind, just when you get going it's over). I also feel for you west coast guys since the venues are so far away. Let's hope that PCA can come to a reasonable way to satisfy everyone with this new format Cheers, James

M758

Here is my take PCA Challenge Series.
Little background
1) I have 944-spec car and Not a PCA Challenge Car
2) I don't have the money do long tows or even go to most "big races"
3) I have been the Phoenix Race in the last few years and seen smaller races



From what I understand PCA Club Racing came-up with this PCA Challenge Idea for a number of reasons.
1) Lot of cup cars out there in PCA racing
2) Some events generate 10-15 cup cars and others 1 or two.
3) Figured they could create a series around these, but where and how.

Well since PCA club racing is spread all across the country there could not be a simple system.

So they figured that alot of cup cars already attend the "big" races, but fewer attend the smaller events. If we let drives Pick 6 races from all the PCA races then it is likely that only the 6-8 "BIG" races would get subsribed to. Since these races are already popular they could not be run a seperate run group. The smaller PCA races have the capacity to run PCA Challenge as its own run group. So this seems like a good idea.

It will bring more racers to the smaller races and in return they get their own run group and series. Seems like a win-win.

How to do it?

Well since the races are scatterd across the lands towing and some times long to tows to "small" races would be required. Those are just the facts.

Honestly I don't think PCA challege is really for the "casual" racer. I for example don't have the funds or the time to do 6 PCA events per year. While in general most guys with cup cars do have funds to do a number of events those that want to take club race beyond the "casual" one event here or there and pick my favorite events type level of club racing have an opprotunity to do so while maintaing the PCA Club Racing standards.

BTW... I am not certain all of the small events on PCA Challenge schedule lose their "enduros" I thing it really comes down to the region. I think we are planning a 60 min enduro for the Phoenix Event.

BTW...
For southwest guys the "4" races to pick would be

Phoenix
Las Vegas
Pueblo

The 4th one is tough, but then again there are not that many south west PCA races anyway.

Matt H

Glen - though it doesnt apply to me (I am quite a way from having a cup car) I thought the same thing you did, man that is a lot of tow time. Both Hallett and TWS are terrific venues with lots of attendance (I guess that is why they were left out? Too much attendance, trying to get the smaller tracks?). Might you team up with someone and split the travel costs etc?
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Stuttgart

Here's what i see is the problem: you pay $2200 for 5 races, but b/c they are so far away, you end up doing 4 of the listed races and 2 non-challenge races you normally do. So, in essence your paying $550 for each of the 4 races plus the normal $275-350 for the 2 non-challenge races. Thats getting up there towards HSR prices and one of the reasons the USAGT is doing so poorly is the high entry fees.

From Atlanta:
Phoenix...........29 hours
CMP.................4 1/2 hours
Las Vegas........30 hours
Mid America......16 hours -yep, definitely not 9 hours
Gingerman........12 1/2 hours
Putnam.............9 1/2 hours
Brainerd............20 hours
Beaverun..........12 hours
Pueblo..............25 hours
NPR...................7 hours

Karl S

Phil,

You may want to double check your mileage to Mid America MS Complex (not Road America in WI). Looks more like 16+ hours to me from Atlanta to Iowa.

Karl

JC in NY

I've posted the mileage and tow times from many cities here for reference.

Glen

JC, nice work.

Thank You.

flatsics

Does anyone know if there is going to be two race dates at Putnam again this year. So far I think the schedule only has one.
I dont see this Cup Series working at the smaller races if it means loosing the Enduro event. How is a region going to go from 60-70 entrants fees for the enduro, to maybe 15-20 for the cup cars.
Gingerman's Enduro last year was some of the most insane fun I've ever had on a track. It was sold out, all those cars on that small track--big fun.

Greg Fishman

My suggestion won't solve the problem but here goes:

The Gingerman race is July 3/4 and the Putnam race is July 17/18. You could always drive to Indy after the Gingerman race and leave your rig there and fly home and back for the Putnam race. I could give you guys some names of some Porsche friendly shops that might be able to store your rigs or even prep them for the next race.

Bruce P

JC-- Thanks for all the data. Here are the total round trip tow miles (rounded off) for the five closest PCA Challenge Series venues for each of the cities JC listed. I used tow miles instead of tow hours as I have found that the hours can vary drastically depending upon the size of your tow rig's fuel tank and or your wife's/girlfriend's bladder.

Boston,MA 9698
NY,NY 7719
Washington DC 6362
Charlotte,NC 5597
Savannah,GA 7004
Tampa,FL 9157
New Orleans,LA 7432
Nashville,KY 4925
Chicago,IL 3606
Duluth,MN 5685
Des Moines,IA 4436
Ok City,OK 6632
Austin,TX 8776
Kansas City,KS 4961
Sioux Falls,SD 5663
Helena,MT 10175
St George,Ut 8119
Santa Fe,NM 7014
Boise,Id 10263
Seattle,WA 15007
San Fran,CA 12602
San Diego,CA 10498
Phoenix,AZ 8167

Average round trip tow for all of the above = 7804 miles.

Looks like if you want to minimize time off work and in the tow rig you need to move to Chicago!

Glen

Looks like if they add 2 credits to the regular races and reduce the small venues by 2 then that changes things in a huge way across the board.

Glen

The other problem we have not covered is that we need to give our first and second choices and if there are not enough cars registered for the first choice then You may have to go to tracks You dont want to or cant afford the time off to go to....