Unawareness/Sloppiness at Sears Point
09-12-2017, 12:38 PM
#46
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I cant find my way home.
09-12-2017, 12:55 PM
#47
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I have no horse in the race, so dont burn me at the stake, but I ask a simple question
what if the guy in the white cup car came over and apologized to the bmw driver and admitted he didnt see him or thought he had him cleared and was very sorry.
Wouldnt that make him less of a DB??
what if the guy in the white cup car came over and apologized to the bmw driver and admitted he didnt see him or thought he had him cleared and was very sorry.
Wouldnt that make him less of a DB??
09-12-2017, 12:59 PM
#49
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Thread Starter
That #69 white Cup Car was a real gem of a driver. One lap before the shunt, the #69 went off at the exit of turn 4 and almost collected another BMW when coming back on the track.
On Saturday, I started the race from pole and none of the Cup Cars were able to catch me and I am glad I did not have to dice with them. On Sunday, they were faster so they either got more comfortable with the track, got more aggressive, or both. I started P2. The P1 Cup Car got away from me right away. The other 2 Cup Cars passed me between 6 and 7. I was quicker than the #69 car but had no desire to mix it up with him as he was over driving. As long as I was not being pressured by the second place car in my class I was content to watch from behind.
The aforementioned off at the exit of turn 4 put me ahead of the #69 car until he passed me causing the shunt.
The driver of the BMW ended up in the hospital with two broken ribs. Luckily it was no worse than that.
On Saturday, I started the race from pole and none of the Cup Cars were able to catch me and I am glad I did not have to dice with them. On Sunday, they were faster so they either got more comfortable with the track, got more aggressive, or both. I started P2. The P1 Cup Car got away from me right away. The other 2 Cup Cars passed me between 6 and 7. I was quicker than the #69 car but had no desire to mix it up with him as he was over driving. As long as I was not being pressured by the second place car in my class I was content to watch from behind.
The aforementioned off at the exit of turn 4 put me ahead of the #69 car until he passed me causing the shunt.
The driver of the BMW ended up in the hospital with two broken ribs. Luckily it was no worse than that.
Mark,
I think the title of your thread is a little inaccurate - certainly #69 was unaware, but that move was far more than "sloppiness". It was down right unacceptably irresponsible and dangerous with potentially deadly consequences. That certainly cannot be classified as a racing incident.
No excuse for that kind of driving on the race track. Probation at the very least, and perhaps his license should be suspended for a period of time.
I think the title of your thread is a little inaccurate - certainly #69 was unaware, but that move was far more than "sloppiness". It was down right unacceptably irresponsible and dangerous with potentially deadly consequences. That certainly cannot be classified as a racing incident.
No excuse for that kind of driving on the race track. Probation at the very least, and perhaps his license should be suspended for a period of time.
here is a pic of the car.. notice the time of the 1:51 spec e46 who was getting run around like a pylon.
09-12-2017, 01:12 PM
#50
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Thread Starter
Youtube has a little more action from behind #69 at the Sears Point race.... I'll leave the commentary up to the collective group.
https://youtu.be/g3nCBLohD-k
https://youtu.be/g3nCBLohD-k
09-14-2017, 03:36 AM
#51
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#69 should have license pulled
he had ample space to pass, i cannot fathom how he hit the bmw
and to say he didnt see it is not possible. he just got by it, how can he not see it?
he had ample space to pass, i cannot fathom how he hit the bmw
and to say he didnt see it is not possible. he just got by it, how can he not see it?
09-14-2017, 03:46 AM
#52
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mike i do not understand why he was not asked to leave for his DB behavior on sat. i know if i did that, masuo would have my *** out the door pronto.
more and more clubs are having more issues. NCRC, HOD, PCG GGR.... some ppl should NOT be racing period. just like i am not allowed to play piano bc every glass pane within 100 miles will shatter. i should not be allowed to fly fighther jets with -9 vision. as such, #69 driver should not be allowed to race, actually not allowed to drive period.
this video and this person's name shoudl be distributed to all pca region inc national, and it appears NGT is supporting him. NGT should get a notice too. if i were head of NGT i be very very embarrassed to have such a client no matter how many billions he is worth.
more and more clubs are having more issues. NCRC, HOD, PCG GGR.... some ppl should NOT be racing period. just like i am not allowed to play piano bc every glass pane within 100 miles will shatter. i should not be allowed to fly fighther jets with -9 vision. as such, #69 driver should not be allowed to race, actually not allowed to drive period.
this video and this person's name shoudl be distributed to all pca region inc national, and it appears NGT is supporting him. NGT should get a notice too. if i were head of NGT i be very very embarrassed to have such a client no matter how many billions he is worth.
So that's what happened....
Disclosure: I helped create the PRC back in 2001. I was in this race.
PRC races under NASA sanction. We have our own tech and Chief Steward, and they are NASA officials. The PRC Chief Steward was also in this race.
Our Chief Steward has been racing since the 60's and we are lucky to have him working with us since we started (he was at the first meetings in 2001).
I had some kind of problem with BHP across the board all weekend-- difficult to troubleshoot. Was down quite a bit of power and my lap times were at least 5-6 seconds off from where I'd naturally qualify.
On Saturday that 69 car was in the back for some reason, and acted like a complete douche bag at the start.
In the Sunday race, I was hopeful the the BMW driver was okay. We (PRC) were told by NASA that we must again mix with GTS and Spec 46's, and we have been adjusting well as far as I can tell. Hopefully the BMW folk realize that this idiot is not a part of PRC culture.
I think there were three guys with factory cars that joined us last weekend. We have not had that happen in a long time. I am sure that our Chief Steward went through things carefully with these folks.
I can say that the driver of #69 did not behave consistent with our rules and culture Saturday at race start, but of course I do not know why.
I have seen douche bags come and go in my time racing and of course my time with PRC. They have always self-selected out.
Our "adjudication team" will likely come down hard on this person, and hopefully we will never see him again. As for the other two, I will withhold comment, but they should be admonished that our rules AND culture are TANTAMOUNT, and if they cannot color within the lines, they should go somewhere else.
I hope that the BMW driver recovers fully and quickly, and I am so sorry to see this type of thing.
Disclosure: I helped create the PRC back in 2001. I was in this race.
PRC races under NASA sanction. We have our own tech and Chief Steward, and they are NASA officials. The PRC Chief Steward was also in this race.
Our Chief Steward has been racing since the 60's and we are lucky to have him working with us since we started (he was at the first meetings in 2001).
I had some kind of problem with BHP across the board all weekend-- difficult to troubleshoot. Was down quite a bit of power and my lap times were at least 5-6 seconds off from where I'd naturally qualify.
On Saturday that 69 car was in the back for some reason, and acted like a complete douche bag at the start.
In the Sunday race, I was hopeful the the BMW driver was okay. We (PRC) were told by NASA that we must again mix with GTS and Spec 46's, and we have been adjusting well as far as I can tell. Hopefully the BMW folk realize that this idiot is not a part of PRC culture.
I think there were three guys with factory cars that joined us last weekend. We have not had that happen in a long time. I am sure that our Chief Steward went through things carefully with these folks.
I can say that the driver of #69 did not behave consistent with our rules and culture Saturday at race start, but of course I do not know why.
I have seen douche bags come and go in my time racing and of course my time with PRC. They have always self-selected out.
Our "adjudication team" will likely come down hard on this person, and hopefully we will never see him again. As for the other two, I will withhold comment, but they should be admonished that our rules AND culture are TANTAMOUNT, and if they cannot color within the lines, they should go somewhere else.
I hope that the BMW driver recovers fully and quickly, and I am so sorry to see this type of thing.
09-14-2017, 10:14 AM
#53
Rennlist Member
rib injuries suck....anyone who has had them... long recovery time very painful as everything is in constant motion from diaphragm expansion. taping makes worse... ugh..
09-14-2017, 12:55 PM
#54
Three Wheelin'
To be more clear, what I saw in real time on Saturday and reviewed in video was the #69 car slightly jumping the start in the back of the GT group, and appearing to be very, very impatient.
I was in back because of an electrical problem (looks like I was only firing 6 plugs), and he was behind me.
I could see him moving back and forth in my mirror between 9 and 11 on the pace lap, and decided then to stay clear of him at flag drop. He passed me right around 12, a tick or two before the double yellows were dropped and the green flag was waved.
I could tell the #69 driver was someone to keep an eye on. I have been in plenty of situations where guys are in back due to problems with quali and/or penalties and are aggressive to get up front at race start.
My most vivid memory is back at Laguna around 2003 or so where a guy bought what I think was a GTA car at the track on one day, and raced it the next day. For some reason he was in the back and decided he had to charge at the start. He caught the accordion at 1, seemingly by surprise, then hit his brakes when the front of the car was light, and turned violently right into k wall. Big damage to the car he just bought, and he wound up on a stretcher. We had a bunch of laps under double yellow.
One of my buddies also started out back just for fun in his 800+ bhp GT1 car and got the whole thing on video. My buddy frequently started in the back to make things more interesting... and when he did he always showed proper etiquette.
Anyway, I digress....
After the race Sunday I mentioned this #69 car behavior to our very experienced and accomplished Chief Steward, who was driving in the race about 5 cars ahead.
I spent the evening troubleshooting, and remember that I mentioned the behavior to the steward a second time indicating that I would check my video later that night. I was unable to do so since my troubleshooting lasted until pretty late.
Our Sunday schedule was crazy... WU at 8:05, Quali at 9:05, and race at 10:05, and I did not see the #69 car on track Sunday since my problem(s) persisted.
I have seen plenty of "behavior" and rules violations in about 20+ years of racing Porsches, and the behavior of the #69 driver that I saw was not unlike many other drivers I have been around. This includes my experience in paid spectator events and in races like what we had at RR IV.
In the PRC, we kind of race a little differently... we try to race on a bit of a higher plane since we all know each other and highly, highly value the paddock camaraderie. That is the cultural part of our racing.
In any case, I hope that the BMW driver is recovering well.
I was in back because of an electrical problem (looks like I was only firing 6 plugs), and he was behind me.
I could see him moving back and forth in my mirror between 9 and 11 on the pace lap, and decided then to stay clear of him at flag drop. He passed me right around 12, a tick or two before the double yellows were dropped and the green flag was waved.
I could tell the #69 driver was someone to keep an eye on. I have been in plenty of situations where guys are in back due to problems with quali and/or penalties and are aggressive to get up front at race start.
My most vivid memory is back at Laguna around 2003 or so where a guy bought what I think was a GTA car at the track on one day, and raced it the next day. For some reason he was in the back and decided he had to charge at the start. He caught the accordion at 1, seemingly by surprise, then hit his brakes when the front of the car was light, and turned violently right into k wall. Big damage to the car he just bought, and he wound up on a stretcher. We had a bunch of laps under double yellow.
One of my buddies also started out back just for fun in his 800+ bhp GT1 car and got the whole thing on video. My buddy frequently started in the back to make things more interesting... and when he did he always showed proper etiquette.
Anyway, I digress....
After the race Sunday I mentioned this #69 car behavior to our very experienced and accomplished Chief Steward, who was driving in the race about 5 cars ahead.
I spent the evening troubleshooting, and remember that I mentioned the behavior to the steward a second time indicating that I would check my video later that night. I was unable to do so since my troubleshooting lasted until pretty late.
Our Sunday schedule was crazy... WU at 8:05, Quali at 9:05, and race at 10:05, and I did not see the #69 car on track Sunday since my problem(s) persisted.
I have seen plenty of "behavior" and rules violations in about 20+ years of racing Porsches, and the behavior of the #69 driver that I saw was not unlike many other drivers I have been around. This includes my experience in paid spectator events and in races like what we had at RR IV.
In the PRC, we kind of race a little differently... we try to race on a bit of a higher plane since we all know each other and highly, highly value the paddock camaraderie. That is the cultural part of our racing.
In any case, I hope that the BMW driver is recovering well.
09-14-2017, 04:06 PM
#55
Three Wheelin'
Par for the course in PCA GTC as far as I'm concerned - one of the reasons I never bought a Cup. More money than brains or respect for others. Hope the BMW driver heals quickly.
09-14-2017, 04:13 PM
#56
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There were multiple drivers of the Pcars in that group. They said as much in the driver's meeting - which only one driver attended on Saturday. They never showed up for downloads but would have heard an earful if they did. There were problems pretty much all day from this group and I doubt very much putting their names up here or anywhere else will even cause them to blink. One came up to the group leader and asked in very broken English what the red cross flag signaled. Anyway, the guy on the left of that pic above was the driver I saw in the 69 car. They pitted in our area next to Simway.
If it was one bonehead move that was immediately addressed personally with condolence you could at least expect it was an acknowledged safety infraction that would be corrected. It doesn't undo what happened to Shaun, but it is something. However the erratic driving continued through the day. These guys were placed in TT/4 earlier in the day for warmups, among 80 cars. Made for an interesting 20 minutes.
If it was one bonehead move that was immediately addressed personally with condolence you could at least expect it was an acknowledged safety infraction that would be corrected. It doesn't undo what happened to Shaun, but it is something. However the erratic driving continued through the day. These guys were placed in TT/4 earlier in the day for warmups, among 80 cars. Made for an interesting 20 minutes.
09-14-2017, 07:07 PM
#58
Three Wheelin'
Apparently more than a half dozen broken ribs. Cage did its job (well-known and accomplished cage builders with whom I just visited). Car is a write-off.
We (the PRC) has had many Cups and R/RS/RSR cars drive with us for many years, and I won't paint with a broad brush. I have had some great races with folks in these cars... folks who can drive and have a similar racing mindset.
I can say that it seems that in recent years (maybe about 5-10) we have a much broader range of skills, talents, and attitudes amongst drivers running potent cars like these, and a wider range of track driving/racing cultures and backgrounds.
We (the PRC) has had many Cups and R/RS/RSR cars drive with us for many years, and I won't paint with a broad brush. I have had some great races with folks in these cars... folks who can drive and have a similar racing mindset.
I can say that it seems that in recent years (maybe about 5-10) we have a much broader range of skills, talents, and attitudes amongst drivers running potent cars like these, and a wider range of track driving/racing cultures and backgrounds.
09-14-2017, 07:56 PM
#60
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i don't race yet. Still climbing the DE color chart, but have definitely thought about racing, and a friend of mine with similar track skills to mine, already does race.
He has asked me why I don't Club Race, or race at all for that matter. He has pushed me to start racing. "Pick up a Spec Boxster and get going".
Truth be told, I think another year of DE and member day seat time would better prepare me to compete and maybe then I'll do it. I want to. Badly.
The video that started this thread is very disturbing to me and makes me wonder why people who drive like this are allowed to club race.
The driver in the BMW was seriously hurt, and that's awful, but HE COULD HAVE DIED, and it would have been due to SOMEONE ELSE'S bad driving behavior.
Why was this person (or people) allowed to race, especially since the bad behavior was occurring PRIOR to the incident in the video?
Makes me think twice about actually competing, even though I know I would absolutely love it.
Why was this type of driving behavior tolerated? No one has answered that question yet, and we're heading to page 5.
Why?
"A wider range of track driving/racing cultures and backgrounds" is not a good answer to "Mommy, why did daddy die on the racetrack today?"
Why are these people allowed on the track in the first place if you know their behavior has potentially very severe consequences?
Am I missing something?
He has asked me why I don't Club Race, or race at all for that matter. He has pushed me to start racing. "Pick up a Spec Boxster and get going".
Truth be told, I think another year of DE and member day seat time would better prepare me to compete and maybe then I'll do it. I want to. Badly.
The video that started this thread is very disturbing to me and makes me wonder why people who drive like this are allowed to club race.
The driver in the BMW was seriously hurt, and that's awful, but HE COULD HAVE DIED, and it would have been due to SOMEONE ELSE'S bad driving behavior.
Why was this person (or people) allowed to race, especially since the bad behavior was occurring PRIOR to the incident in the video?
Makes me think twice about actually competing, even though I know I would absolutely love it.
Why was this type of driving behavior tolerated? No one has answered that question yet, and we're heading to page 5.
Why?
"A wider range of track driving/racing cultures and backgrounds" is not a good answer to "Mommy, why did daddy die on the racetrack today?"
Why are these people allowed on the track in the first place if you know their behavior has potentially very severe consequences?
Am I missing something?
