Z-man

I will be upgrading from a harness bar / 6 point harness to a Redline rollbar in my 944S2.

With the harness bar, I have the shoulder harnesses mounted to the eyebolts I attached to the rear seat belt anchor points, and they are looped over the harness bar. (Some believe the harness can be attached directly to the harness bar, I do not think so.)

The Redline rollbar is attached to the car via four bolts at the seatbelt anchor points. This is not PCA club racing legal, IIRC, and some people fell a bolt-in roll bar is unsafe. However, I will be using my car for DE's only (at this point), and feel such a roll bar is safer than nothing.

I like the fact that when the season is over, I can simply unclick 3/4ths of my harnesses and pack them away: less exposure to UV, less wear, and when driving on the street, I do not get as many looks from the 'officials.'

So my question: can I still attach my shoulder harnesses to the seat belt anchor points with a roll-bar, and loop it over the bar instead of attaching it directly to the bar?

I eagerly await your answers,
-Z-man.

Renn 951

I just attached mine around the horizontal bar on the Redline, which is how John Hagny recommended doing it. While that's not good for a harness bar, for the Redline rollbar that seems better to me than trying to run them over the top and then down to the seatbelt attachments.

Z-man

Renn:
Thanks for the reply. Do you know of any reason NOT to install them as I described above?

-Zoltan.

Renn 951

Well, the lower bar attachment points bolt to the outboard seat belt anchors, so I'm not sure how your eye bolt anchors would be bolted to the same points.

Also, you'll have a straighter, shorter run for the shoulder belts by attaching them directly to the rollbar than bending them over the bar and then spreading them outward to the seat belt anchors.

Mark in Baltimore

Z-man,

I know this has been debated here many times, and I'm not sure about your Redline bar, but DAS' bolt-in bar is legal for club racing. I believe the change was made as of August 15, 2003.

Good enough for PCA, good enough for me...

Z-man

Mark: based on your info, the Redline Racing rollbar is most likely PCA Club racing legal. I stand corrected.

Still, should I attach the harnesses directly to the bar, or is it safe to loop them over?
-Z.

DJF1

Loop them over! Much safer in case of an accident. My race mechanic did not even want to hear about not looping them over the roll bar, many times I might add. Mine are directly anchored to the roll bar behind the seat as I said looped over many times.

Mike Buck

I may be mistaken, but I highly doubt the Redline bar is or would ever be club race legal. The DAS bar bolts to the sills, the Redline bar does not. Apples to oranges. It is suited well for DE though, just like my B-K harness bar was.

DAS is working on a 944/968 bar of their own, IIRC. If it follows the design of their 911 bar, it may become legal too


I looked at ALL of the options out there before making the decision about what to do with my own car. While never the cheapest, its hard to argue the safety of a custom welded in cage. I have an appointment with one of the best guys in the business for early next year.

ninefiveone

Z - Why don't you just send John an email and ask him?

www.redlinerennsport.com

Z-man

ninefiveone:
D'oh!

Good idea!!!!

-Z.

Bill Gregory

Z-man,

On a bolt in like that (or DAS bar which I used to have), I would route the harness over the bar to connect to the eye bolts, as you described. My reasoning is that I wouldn't want a forward force to put extra pressure on the bolts in an accident. I'm not an engineer, and am not asking for another "why a gazillion pounds of pressure are required to sheer a bolt" discussion. I don't know your setup, but I also use seats with shoulder harness cutouts (required in our PCA region). But that may be another discussion.

BrianKeithSmith

Just FYI regarding something I saw this past weekend.

A guy with a new BMW M3, was using factory seats (reclining type) with the Schroth 4 pt belts that attach to the rear seat belt mount points, and side belt mount pounts.

He bounced his car off the wall, and during the accident his seat was badly deformed. The Seat bent to the right, and backward, and the back (reclining portion) of the seat was twisted farther to the right.

The guy made the comment that when the car stopped, he was basically out of the harness, simply because the seat had moved so far.

Scary stuff.

I know we've discussed the subject of harnesses without bars in the past on this board, and I'm certainly not trying to bring it up again, I just saw this post, and thought I'd mention what I saw this past weekend.

Brian

Mark in Baltimore

Brian,

I take it this was at the G&W Fall Fling at VIR? That M3 looked like hell...

Z-man

Bill: very valid point: I think that makes a lot of sense.

Thanks,
-Z.

smokey

If you loop the belts over the bar and attach them to the seat-belt mounts at an included angle of 90 degrees, you increase the force on the bar by 41.4 percent in comparison to attaching the belts directly to the bar. You also increase the amount of stretch on the belts in a collision by having a longer free length of belt. Some will disagree with this analysis, which is their right. Has anyone ever bent a harness bar due to the force from the belts in a collision? If not, the issue is probably academic, as the bar may be strong enough no matter how you mount the belt.