Radical SR3 vs Ariel Atom 3s
07-29-2017, 02:35 AM
#31
Thanks Ace!
Right now I'm driving a C7 Z06. Not quite at the limit and I have a very long way to go - but probably 8.5-9 tenths. I want a different car mostly for consumable costs and not having to swap tires, pads, seats, harnesses, etc every track day.
I'm running low 1:32's at Mid-Ohio and I'm not too comfortable getting a slower car.
An Ariel looks like a low maintenance car but comes with a ton of compromise. The NP01 just seems too slow and the components don't look great. The SR3 seems like a nice option.
I'm not ready to race this year or next but would like to leave that door open.
I'm also interested in the Norma but parts availability looks limited, and I would be even less visible to other HPDE drivers.
I'm feeling pretty good about the SR3 - just need to get comfortable with the cost.
Right now I'm driving a C7 Z06. Not quite at the limit and I have a very long way to go - but probably 8.5-9 tenths. I want a different car mostly for consumable costs and not having to swap tires, pads, seats, harnesses, etc every track day.
I'm running low 1:32's at Mid-Ohio and I'm not too comfortable getting a slower car.
An Ariel looks like a low maintenance car but comes with a ton of compromise. The NP01 just seems too slow and the components don't look great. The SR3 seems like a nice option.
I'm not ready to race this year or next but would like to leave that door open.
I'm also interested in the Norma but parts availability looks limited, and I would be even less visible to other HPDE drivers.
I'm feeling pretty good about the SR3 - just need to get comfortable with the cost.
At first I was thinking about getting a Corvette race car with a cage.... But once I saw a Radical out on the track I decided I couldn't pass up the chance to own a purpose built downforce race car. It was one of the best decisions I ever made. It takes a while to get adjusted to having a purpose built race car, for example, how do you jack up a car with 2" of ground clearance?.... how big of a torque wrench do you need to torque a center lock wheel to 240ft.lbs? (I'll give you a hint, it is about 4 times the size on the one you have now).... and learning to trust the downforce and recalibrating your brain to go that fast through the corners. But learning all of these things makes for a really exciting journey.
But I have to say one of my favorite parts of owning this car is all of the new people I meet at every track day. I would say that about 10 to 20 people come over and talk to me at every track day. Everyone wants to know about the car and I really enjoy sharing the experience with them.
Charley
07-29-2017, 03:22 AM
#32
Rennlist Member
My path was very similar to yours. I tracked my C6 Corvette for many years and had a great time doing it. As I started getting faster two things happened. First, the car was getting to the point where it wasn't a great street car and it wasn't a great track car... it was stuck in the middle of being good at both but not great at either. The second thing was that I wanted to have more safety features than you can reasonably put in a dual purpose car.
At first I was thinking about getting a Corvette race car with a cage.... But once I saw a Radical out on the track I decided I couldn't pass up the chance to own a purpose built downforce race car. It was one of the best decisions I ever made. It takes a while to get adjusted to having a purpose built race car, for example, how do you jack up a car with 2" of ground clearance?.... how big of a torque wrench do you need to torque a center lock wheel to 240ft.lbs? (I'll give you a hint, it is about 4 times the size on the one you have now).... and learning to trust the downforce and recalibrating your brain to go that fast through the corners. But learning all of these things makes for a really exciting journey.
But I have to say one of my favorite parts of owning this car is all of the new people I meet at every track day. I would say that about 10 to 20 people come over and talk to me at every track day. Everyone wants to know about the car and I really enjoy sharing the experience with them.
Charley
At first I was thinking about getting a Corvette race car with a cage.... But once I saw a Radical out on the track I decided I couldn't pass up the chance to own a purpose built downforce race car. It was one of the best decisions I ever made. It takes a while to get adjusted to having a purpose built race car, for example, how do you jack up a car with 2" of ground clearance?.... how big of a torque wrench do you need to torque a center lock wheel to 240ft.lbs? (I'll give you a hint, it is about 4 times the size on the one you have now).... and learning to trust the downforce and recalibrating your brain to go that fast through the corners. But learning all of these things makes for a really exciting journey.
But I have to say one of my favorite parts of owning this car is all of the new people I meet at every track day. I would say that about 10 to 20 people come over and talk to me at every track day. Everyone wants to know about the car and I really enjoy sharing the experience with them.
Charley
07-29-2017, 01:55 PM
#33
Thanks Ace!
Right now I'm driving a C7 Z06. Not quite at the limit and I have a very long way to go - but probably 8.5-9 tenths. I want a different car mostly for consumable costs and not having to swap tires, pads, seats, harnesses, etc every track day.
I'm running low 1:32's at Mid-Ohio and I'm not too comfortable getting a slower car.
I'm feeling pretty good about the SR3 - just need to get comfortable with the cost.
Right now I'm driving a C7 Z06. Not quite at the limit and I have a very long way to go - but probably 8.5-9 tenths. I want a different car mostly for consumable costs and not having to swap tires, pads, seats, harnesses, etc every track day.
I'm running low 1:32's at Mid-Ohio and I'm not too comfortable getting a slower car.
I'm feeling pretty good about the SR3 - just need to get comfortable with the cost.
There is a new west coast series starting called SpecCorvette. The build cost including buying the used C5 corvette is $20k!!!! The inventors of this series are guys who used to run SCCA T1 pre-2012. Those were the fun days. I raced then in T1 too and the battles were the best I have had. It was like small field of miatas but with speed and horsepower. Their goal is to have T1 like speeds bigger fields and cheap close competition. We got 15 cars in various stages of being built and more committed who will cross over from SCCA T2 etc. So there is a datapoint in favor of sticking with something you already know...corvettes.
Here is another datapoint. I have raced mid-o just a couple of times being from the westcoast. At mid-o in SCCA T2 we run 1:35's in the C5 corvette. The T2 corvette is ballasted up to 3525 min weight which is about 300lb more than a stock C5! our 400hp Z06 motor is restricted to 55mm which puts out 345HP to the wheels. So just 3 seconds off your time in a detuned C5Z06. That is pretty close to your time and with cheap disposible parts and maintenance. My T2 corvette is a gas and oil car. I'm travel racing the East coast on my way to race the Runoffs at Indy in september. I left California in January with 3 sets of wheels, 2 oil filters, 1 set of front brake rotors and some brake pads for the entire race season. My car will be back in Cali in November. That is how reliable the C5 platform is. So if you run the SCCA T2 configuration without restrictor and stock weight you could be very close to your Mid-o time for a pretty minimal dollar investment. Think about that....
07-29-2017, 02:37 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
To the OP, I'll just throw this out there. Have you considered something like a Formula Mazda for 15-30K? Extraordinary bang for the buck. If your mission is to eventually race it, you'll want to make sure you are in an SCCA region where there are other FM's. The Northeast is not a common FM area. I use it as a track day car. Ironically, the only time I've ever had contact in this car was with a Radical and not a sports car.
I absolutely LOVE my FM. My last time at the Glen I was running in the 1:57s which is up there with most 996 Cups. They are incredibly rewarding cars to learn how to drive. There is medium downforce - nothing like a Radical - but I still pull 2.3 g max sustained. It has an H-pattern dog box which was very rewarding to learn how to drive. If I ever go the Radical direction, I would still need to keep this car because I think I would miss the interaction with the dog box.
Just some food for thought!
I absolutely LOVE my FM. My last time at the Glen I was running in the 1:57s which is up there with most 996 Cups. They are incredibly rewarding cars to learn how to drive. There is medium downforce - nothing like a Radical - but I still pull 2.3 g max sustained. It has an H-pattern dog box which was very rewarding to learn how to drive. If I ever go the Radical direction, I would still need to keep this car because I think I would miss the interaction with the dog box.
Just some food for thought!
08-18-2017, 08:09 PM
#36
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I have an Atom 3S and happened upon this post. It's been a few weeks, but I figured I might as well put my 2 cents in.
Every single group I have talked to has said it is fine to run. YMMV, but it has not been an issue for me at all. I do have the optional taller rollhoop, but since it is bolt on it is probably more cosmetic (I got it used).
I'd agree with that, except that it is a hoot on the street, even with the optional windscreen. The intake by your ear and the turbo noises, plus the just instantaneous response due to the weight, and being able to watch the road go under you. Even crawling over potholes is fun because you can watch the wheel dangling up in the air, and braking hard at night you can watch the sparks. Just a very involving car, even when driven at 2/10 on the street. Unless I'm in a real hooligan supermoto mood, my motorcycles just sit now. Poser? I suppose, but so are basically every street car above a Prius if you are going to get technical.
On the track, it always wants to come around so it is fun to wrestle with keeping it in line, but also the most stressful car I've ever had on track. 100% concentration all the time. I've seen a few Radicals and some other trackday specials, as well as one non-turbo Atom back before I got mine. The other Atom spun every session, but he told me it had been reliable. I spun mine trying to figure out the limits (apparently the limit is foot flat at 120 mph around a sweeper), and I had to fix some abuse from the previous owner, but other than that it has been 100% reliable for about 5k miles street and track. The more hardcore track specials I have seen always break down at least once every single day, often putting them out of commission for the rest of the weekend. I know that is a small sample set (maybe a dozen total cars) but it has been my observation. The caveat being that I then watch the owners try to ape the cars together with mallets and adjustable wrenches...so I suspect poor maintenance was a factor in most of it. Guys with "street" track cars like Atoms and Caterham 7s seem to take better care of them than the true track only cars.
Would I get the Atom again over something like a Radical? Yes, because I like driving it on the street. But only if it is the turbo, because it makes awesome noises. For a pure track car, I'd get a Radical or something similar, and make sure it was in good shape. I would be leery of buying a used one, since every one I've seen has been abused, as mentioned above. Though if I was racing, I'd pick something that has a large field locally even if it is slower. I've been eyeballing Legends cars lately, having driven a couple, because I want to go wheel to wheel in something reliable with big packs of cars.
--really can't see anyone driving an Atom on the street
--if it's posing as a race car it's doing so quite well; there were a couple on track with us @ Mosport y-day going very fast, though I think track car would be a more appropriate term for the Atom than race car
--the Rad IS a race car.
Gary
--if it's posing as a race car it's doing so quite well; there were a couple on track with us @ Mosport y-day going very fast, though I think track car would be a more appropriate term for the Atom than race car
--the Rad IS a race car.
Gary
On the track, it always wants to come around so it is fun to wrestle with keeping it in line, but also the most stressful car I've ever had on track. 100% concentration all the time. I've seen a few Radicals and some other trackday specials, as well as one non-turbo Atom back before I got mine. The other Atom spun every session, but he told me it had been reliable. I spun mine trying to figure out the limits (apparently the limit is foot flat at 120 mph around a sweeper), and I had to fix some abuse from the previous owner, but other than that it has been 100% reliable for about 5k miles street and track. The more hardcore track specials I have seen always break down at least once every single day, often putting them out of commission for the rest of the weekend. I know that is a small sample set (maybe a dozen total cars) but it has been my observation. The caveat being that I then watch the owners try to ape the cars together with mallets and adjustable wrenches...so I suspect poor maintenance was a factor in most of it. Guys with "street" track cars like Atoms and Caterham 7s seem to take better care of them than the true track only cars.
Would I get the Atom again over something like a Radical? Yes, because I like driving it on the street. But only if it is the turbo, because it makes awesome noises. For a pure track car, I'd get a Radical or something similar, and make sure it was in good shape. I would be leery of buying a used one, since every one I've seen has been abused, as mentioned above. Though if I was racing, I'd pick something that has a large field locally even if it is slower. I've been eyeballing Legends cars lately, having driven a couple, because I want to go wheel to wheel in something reliable with big packs of cars.
09-04-2017, 03:32 AM
#38
Rennlist Member
you have a good eye! I bought it through Robert. It has been so much fun trying to get up to speed!
09-04-2017, 02:34 PM
#39
Huh, missed this thread a month ago. Oh well, here's my 2 cents. I bought a new Wolf GB08SM last July (2016). The build and delivery time were very fast, only about 6 weeks from money paid to delivery in USA. There were teething pains due to "distributor" support issues, but once I got everything the way I wanted it, it's been a tough, dependable bullet proof car that pulls 3-3.5g's and easily outruns anything on a DE day.
A 15 gallon fuel-cell full of 93 octane lasts me 4 driving sessions. Slicks (Michelin) last 3-4 events (12-16 sessions). It is very easy to work on, its handling is predictable and forgiving, after 20 track days I'm still on original pads and rotors, and alignment is still spot on. Lightweight FTMFW.
If you are a good driver and desire a near-F1 driving experience, the option to have any lap "turned up to 11" in sensory input, the Wolf will fill the bill. As would a Norma or a Ligier or any CN racecar. I cannot imagine ever wanting to go back to any form of street car, or car that weighs over, say, 2000lbs on track.
Yes, the Wolf costs more because it is an FIA rated, crash tested, full carbon tub with all carbon body panels. Suspension and many fittings and components are Dallara, power is a dry-sump Honda 2.3 which will easily go 150-200 hours between rebuilds, full electronically actuated and paddle shifted Sadev sequential race box, Life Racing electronics. You get what you pay for and I personally think the Wolf is very fairly priced given the spec and performance.
For safety considerations and dealing the with G-forces, the cockpit is very intimate. Pedal box and heel-rest are adjustable, as is the steering wheel height. I have a custom poured SFI-rated foam seat, and sitting in this thing is more comfortable than my sofa at home :-) Not having any A or B pillars to impede your view is also very nice.
I love every moment of driving the thing, it's been a steep and enjoyable learning curve, and there is no other car I'd rather have on track. If you have the basic driving skills in place, anyone inclined to do so can make the transition into a real race car and I'd highly recommend doing so sooner than later rather than screwing around wasting time and money modding a street car (voice of experience, ugh
)
Anyhow for those that care, there you go. If anyone is thinking about buying a Wolf, shoot me a message and I'm glad to be a sounding board.
A 15 gallon fuel-cell full of 93 octane lasts me 4 driving sessions. Slicks (Michelin) last 3-4 events (12-16 sessions). It is very easy to work on, its handling is predictable and forgiving, after 20 track days I'm still on original pads and rotors, and alignment is still spot on. Lightweight FTMFW.
If you are a good driver and desire a near-F1 driving experience, the option to have any lap "turned up to 11" in sensory input, the Wolf will fill the bill. As would a Norma or a Ligier or any CN racecar. I cannot imagine ever wanting to go back to any form of street car, or car that weighs over, say, 2000lbs on track.
Yes, the Wolf costs more because it is an FIA rated, crash tested, full carbon tub with all carbon body panels. Suspension and many fittings and components are Dallara, power is a dry-sump Honda 2.3 which will easily go 150-200 hours between rebuilds, full electronically actuated and paddle shifted Sadev sequential race box, Life Racing electronics. You get what you pay for and I personally think the Wolf is very fairly priced given the spec and performance.
For safety considerations and dealing the with G-forces, the cockpit is very intimate. Pedal box and heel-rest are adjustable, as is the steering wheel height. I have a custom poured SFI-rated foam seat, and sitting in this thing is more comfortable than my sofa at home :-) Not having any A or B pillars to impede your view is also very nice.
I love every moment of driving the thing, it's been a steep and enjoyable learning curve, and there is no other car I'd rather have on track. If you have the basic driving skills in place, anyone inclined to do so can make the transition into a real race car and I'd highly recommend doing so sooner than later rather than screwing around wasting time and money modding a street car (voice of experience, ugh
) Anyhow for those that care, there you go. If anyone is thinking about buying a Wolf, shoot me a message and I'm glad to be a sounding board.
Last edited by savyboy; 09-04-2017 at 03:26 PM.
09-04-2017, 03:22 PM
#40
Huh, missed this thread a month ago. Oh well, here's my 2 cents. I bought a new Wolf GB08SM last July (2016). The build and delivery time were very fast, only about 6 weeks from money paid to delivery in USA. There were teething pains due to "distributor" support issues, but once I got everything the way I wanted it, it's been a tough, dependable bullet proof car that pulls 3-3.5g's and easily outruns anything on a DE day.
A 15 gallon fuel-cell full of 93 octane lasts me 4 driving sessions. Slicks (Michelin) last 3-4 events (12-16 sessions). It is very easy to work on, its handling is predictable and forgiving, after 20 track days I'm still on original pads and rotors, and alignment is still spot on. Lightweight FTMFW.
If you are a good driver and desire a near-F1 driving experience, the option to have any lap "turned up to 11" in sensory input, the Wolf will fill the bill. As would a Norma or a Ligier or any CN racecar. I cannot imagine ever wanting to go back to any form of street car, or car that weighs over, say, 2000lbs on track.
Yes, the Wolf costs more because it is an FIA rated, crash tested, full carbon tub with all carbon body panels. Suspension and many fittings and components are Dallara, power is a dry-sump Honda 2.3 which will easily go 150-200 hours between rebuilds, full electronically actuated and paddle shifted Sadev sequential race box, Life Racing electronics. You get what you pay for and I personally think the Wolf is very fairly priced given the spec and performance.
For safety considerations and dealing the with G-forces, the cockpit is very intimate. Pedal box and heel-rest are adjustable, as is the steering wheel height. I have a custom poured SFI-rated foam seat, and sitting in this thing is more comfortable than my sofa at home :-) Not having any A or B pillars to impede your view is also very nice.
I love every moment of driving the thing, it's been a steep and enjoyable learning curve, and there is no other car I'd rather have on track. If you have the basic driving skills in place, anyone inclined to do so can make the transition into a real race car and I'd highly recommend doing so sooner than later rather than screwing around wasting time and money modding a street car (voice of experience, ugh)
Anyhow for those that care, there you go. If anyone is thinking at buying a Wolf, shoot me a message and I'm glad to be a sounding board.
A 15 gallon fuel-cell full of 93 octane lasts me 4 driving sessions. Slicks (Michelin) last 3-4 events (12-16 sessions). It is very easy to work on, its handling is predictable and forgiving, after 20 track days I'm still on original pads and rotors, and alignment is still spot on. Lightweight FTMFW.
If you are a good driver and desire a near-F1 driving experience, the option to have any lap "turned up to 11" in sensory input, the Wolf will fill the bill. As would a Norma or a Ligier or any CN racecar. I cannot imagine ever wanting to go back to any form of street car, or car that weighs over, say, 2000lbs on track.
Yes, the Wolf costs more because it is an FIA rated, crash tested, full carbon tub with all carbon body panels. Suspension and many fittings and components are Dallara, power is a dry-sump Honda 2.3 which will easily go 150-200 hours between rebuilds, full electronically actuated and paddle shifted Sadev sequential race box, Life Racing electronics. You get what you pay for and I personally think the Wolf is very fairly priced given the spec and performance.
For safety considerations and dealing the with G-forces, the cockpit is very intimate. Pedal box and heel-rest are adjustable, as is the steering wheel height. I have a custom poured SFI-rated foam seat, and sitting in this thing is more comfortable than my sofa at home :-) Not having any A or B pillars to impede your view is also very nice.
I love every moment of driving the thing, it's been a steep and enjoyable learning curve, and there is no other car I'd rather have on track. If you have the basic driving skills in place, anyone inclined to do so can make the transition into a real race car and I'd highly recommend doing so sooner than later rather than screwing around wasting time and money modding a street car (voice of experience, ugh
) Anyhow for those that care, there you go. If anyone is thinking at buying a Wolf, shoot me a message and I'm glad to be a sounding board.
Gary
09-06-2017, 09:50 PM
#42
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09-06-2017, 09:51 PM
#43
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09-25-2017, 12:30 PM
#44
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I've seen 2 of the LV02s in the past few weeks in Texas. One was delivered to MSR Houston this week. All carbon body and an LS. Looked wicked. Owner also had a McLaren GT3 car. No idea what he's planning to do with it but he's only been tracking cars for a few years.
10-05-2019, 07:58 AM
#45
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Huh, missed this thread a month ago. Oh well, here's my 2 cents. I bought a new Wolf GB08SM last July (2016). The build and delivery time were very fast, only about 6 weeks from money paid to delivery in USA. There were teething pains due to "distributor" support issues, but once I got everything the way I wanted it, it's been a tough, dependable bullet proof car that pulls 3-3.5g's and easily outruns anything on a DE day.
A 15 gallon fuel-cell full of 93 octane lasts me 4 driving sessions. Slicks (Michelin) last 3-4 events (12-16 sessions). It is very easy to work on, its handling is predictable and forgiving, after 20 track days I'm still on original pads and rotors, and alignment is still spot on. Lightweight FTMFW.
If you are a good driver and desire a near-F1 driving experience, the option to have any lap "turned up to 11" in sensory input, the Wolf will fill the bill. As would a Norma or a Ligier or any CN racecar. I cannot imagine ever wanting to go back to any form of street car, or car that weighs over, say, 2000lbs on track.
Yes, the Wolf costs more because it is an FIA rated, crash tested, full carbon tub with all carbon body panels. Suspension and many fittings and components are Dallara, power is a dry-sump Honda 2.3 which will easily go 150-200 hours between rebuilds, full electronically actuated and paddle shifted Sadev sequential race box, Life Racing electronics. You get what you pay for and I personally think the Wolf is very fairly priced given the spec and performance.
For safety considerations and dealing the with G-forces, the cockpit is very intimate. Pedal box and heel-rest are adjustable, as is the steering wheel height. I have a custom poured SFI-rated foam seat, and sitting in this thing is more comfortable than my sofa at home :-) Not having any A or B pillars to impede your view is also very nice.
I love every moment of driving the thing, it's been a steep and enjoyable learning curve, and there is no other car I'd rather have on track. If you have the basic driving skills in place, anyone inclined to do so can make the transition into a real race car and I'd highly recommend doing so sooner than later rather than screwing around wasting time and money modding a street car (voice of experience, ugh)
Anyhow for those that care, there you go. If anyone is thinking about buying a Wolf, shoot me a message and I'm glad to be a sounding board.
A 15 gallon fuel-cell full of 93 octane lasts me 4 driving sessions. Slicks (Michelin) last 3-4 events (12-16 sessions). It is very easy to work on, its handling is predictable and forgiving, after 20 track days I'm still on original pads and rotors, and alignment is still spot on. Lightweight FTMFW.
If you are a good driver and desire a near-F1 driving experience, the option to have any lap "turned up to 11" in sensory input, the Wolf will fill the bill. As would a Norma or a Ligier or any CN racecar. I cannot imagine ever wanting to go back to any form of street car, or car that weighs over, say, 2000lbs on track.
Yes, the Wolf costs more because it is an FIA rated, crash tested, full carbon tub with all carbon body panels. Suspension and many fittings and components are Dallara, power is a dry-sump Honda 2.3 which will easily go 150-200 hours between rebuilds, full electronically actuated and paddle shifted Sadev sequential race box, Life Racing electronics. You get what you pay for and I personally think the Wolf is very fairly priced given the spec and performance.
For safety considerations and dealing the with G-forces, the cockpit is very intimate. Pedal box and heel-rest are adjustable, as is the steering wheel height. I have a custom poured SFI-rated foam seat, and sitting in this thing is more comfortable than my sofa at home :-) Not having any A or B pillars to impede your view is also very nice.
I love every moment of driving the thing, it's been a steep and enjoyable learning curve, and there is no other car I'd rather have on track. If you have the basic driving skills in place, anyone inclined to do so can make the transition into a real race car and I'd highly recommend doing so sooner than later rather than screwing around wasting time and money modding a street car (voice of experience, ugh
)Anyhow for those that care, there you go. If anyone is thinking about buying a Wolf, shoot me a message and I'm glad to be a sounding board.
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Official Website: https://silverrocket.co/
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- Alex Li
Product Manager& On-Track Tester@SilverRocket Racing, Asia's leading Porsche race team, leverages our racing expertise, we develop motorsport grade performance parts for the Porsche GT4 RS street car and Porsche 991 Cup Cars.
Official Website: https://silverrocket.co/
Store Link: https://store.51gt3.com/collections/...rformance-kit