Radical SR3 vs Ariel Atom 3s
07-28-2017, 09:06 AM
#16
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Key is watch the revs... cut 500 to 1000 off the top, let it warm up and it'll last for a long time.
07-28-2017, 12:03 PM
#17
07-28-2017, 01:00 PM
#18
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50 C, folks! 
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07-28-2017, 01:41 PM
#19
The recommended hours between overhaul can really be affected by how you drive the car. The 40 hour recommendation is for racing. Radical says that in non race conditions 65 or more is acceptable. I changed my pistons in my last overhaul (because there was a design flaw in the pistons I had) and the pistons that came out at 40 hours looked absolutely brand new. One of the Radical drivers that I track with told me that he has 125 hours on his 1500 and it is starting to need an overhaul. I don't know that I would go that long between overhauls, but 40 hours is conservitive.
Charley
Charley
Charley
07-28-2017, 03:22 PM
#22
Drifting
I've owned a Spec Atom since 2012 and have driven an SR3 and consider going that direction one day.
They are very different cars. The SR3 is a true aero race car and will out corner and out brake an Atom by miles.
The biggest advantage of the Atom is the drivetrain. The Honda motors are reliable and even if they blow are cheap. Our Atom needs gas, tires and brake pads. That's about it. I will also caution that our Atom has had its frame break twice for no apparent reason. For this reason we are only going to use our Atom as a back up car for future driving. Admittedly, we probably have put more miles on our Spec Atom than anybody else anywhere. I think even with the front/rear wings the Atom 3 offers, it is still not a huge downforce car. It's more like a sports car with its relatively high COG. I will say that the Atom is fun to drive when it's not trying to kill you.
The Radicals require significantly more maintenance. They run on true slick tires (so shorter tire life). If you go off the track there is going to be body work damage.
We will not be buying another Atom but there is a good chance we would buy an SR3 one day.
They are very different cars. The SR3 is a true aero race car and will out corner and out brake an Atom by miles.
The biggest advantage of the Atom is the drivetrain. The Honda motors are reliable and even if they blow are cheap. Our Atom needs gas, tires and brake pads. That's about it. I will also caution that our Atom has had its frame break twice for no apparent reason. For this reason we are only going to use our Atom as a back up car for future driving. Admittedly, we probably have put more miles on our Spec Atom than anybody else anywhere. I think even with the front/rear wings the Atom 3 offers, it is still not a huge downforce car. It's more like a sports car with its relatively high COG. I will say that the Atom is fun to drive when it's not trying to kill you.
The Radicals require significantly more maintenance. They run on true slick tires (so shorter tire life). If you go off the track there is going to be body work damage.
We will not be buying another Atom but there is a good chance we would buy an SR3 one day.
07-28-2017, 04:10 PM
#23
--if it's posing as a race car it's doing so quite well; there were a couple on track with us @ Mosport y-day going very fast, though I think track car would be a more appropriate term for the Atom than race car
--the Rad IS a race car.
Gary
07-28-2017, 04:45 PM
#24
Three Wheelin'
--really can't see anyone driving an Atom on the street
--if it's posing as a race car it's doing so quite well; there were a couple on track with us @ Mosport y-day going very fast, though I think track car would be a more appropriate term for the Atom than race car
--the Rad IS a race car.
Gary
--if it's posing as a race car it's doing so quite well; there were a couple on track with us @ Mosport y-day going very fast, though I think track car would be a more appropriate term for the Atom than race car
--the Rad IS a race car.
Gary
07-28-2017, 05:34 PM
#25
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I've had multiple things break in the suspension while running hot but not an actual upright. My rear toe link snapped during an SRA qualifying session coming through South Bend at VIR. Rear wheel/suspension was on top of the car. This was very early on in ownership of the Atom. They redesigned that toe link and strongly recommended people switch to it.
To the OP, something else to consider. If this is going to be a track day car, some organizations will not allow the Atom because it is a true open wheel car whereas the Radical would be OK.
To the OP, something else to consider. If this is going to be a track day car, some organizations will not allow the Atom because it is a true open wheel car whereas the Radical would be OK.
07-28-2017, 07:12 PM
#26
07-28-2017, 08:46 PM
#27
What do you think about the old SR3 in current club racing? I don't know anything about the SCCA P1 and P2 class (old CSR and DSR) and it seems like the SR3 is really not suited to either class because it also trys to be a trackday car just big enough to be seen by other streetcars while it seems the P1/2 cars like wolfs stors seem to be more purpose built for those classes perhaps lower CG etc. Am I completely wrong on that?
07-28-2017, 08:52 PM
#28
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The older SR3 has never been competitive in Club Racing, too heavy. These cars, even up to the SR8, are not designed to SCCA rules. So no, wouldn't recommend them to campaign in SCCA. The Radical series in this country is growing, though.
The Wolf, Ligier and other FIA CN cars (mostly all Honda K20 and K24 power plants) can be competitive, but since one won last year, I'm quite sure that those cars will get "the lead success trophy" assigned to them to prevent a repeat very soon, if not already.
The Wolf, Ligier and other FIA CN cars (mostly all Honda K20 and K24 power plants) can be competitive, but since one won last year, I'm quite sure that those cars will get "the lead success trophy" assigned to them to prevent a repeat very soon, if not already.
07-28-2017, 10:21 PM
#29
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I'd recommend you also consider which car is better to learn on for whatever stage you're at. What I mean by that is:
-The aero downforce on the Radical does very little at low speeds and the faster you go the harder you can corner (not just a little, like twice as hard).
-If you intuitively understand mechanical grip on lightweight cars on slicks the Radical will be fun to learn aero on and a riot to drive.
-If you don't, the Radical will still be a riot to drive but it may be very difficult to climb the learning curve and develop your driving skills to the performance level of the car. In that case the Atom would probably be the easier car to learn to drive well and build your skills with because you are learning pure mechanical grip.
Because the Atom has the approximate aerodynamic efficiency of a millwall brick, despite the much higher HP it has about the same top speed as the Radical.
Since you asked about the Aero and NP-01 in another thread, here are three other alternative options to kick around or evaluate:
While ugly, the Lotus 7 family of cars are a lot of fun, lightweight, and affordable to run at the track and race in the few applicable race classes. However, because of the front engine RWD layout they'll be much more forgiving and perhaps more fun than the Atom: when you slightly overcook a corner you can just let off the throttle for understeer or add throttle to slide around it. (With a rear engine it's not so easy to mess around.) As a bonus you can a big V8 if you want a monster. Winding Road has an article on them: https://www.windingroad.com/articles...lica-kit-cars/
If the SCCA is active at your local tracks, you might also look into the cheaper full-on formula car classes like FF, FM, and FC by reading threads on apexspeed.com. The downsides are you need more maintenance and probably trackside support, and not all tracks have the SCCA or another formula car friendly organizer setting up races. In my case I'd have to tow a formula car at least ten hours to run it at anything besides a test day.
Finally, you can not buy a car yet and spend some money to do arrive and drive races. You'll gain some experience, have a great time, and figure out what you really care about. It's not the cheapest way to go but since you can stop at any time and have no strings attached, there's no car to sell, there's no maintenance, no towing, etc,. it's really not a bad way to go. The popular race schools offer programs.
And if you intend to eventually race, check into your local track's organizing groups, their supported classes, and look at the recent race results at the tracks you'd run to find out which classes actually have a decent sized grid of cars showing up regularly. Even if the cars aren't as sexy, it's possible you'd have the most fun racing whatever car fits in one of those groups. Believe it or not, not everyone running a Spec Miata, SRF, or Spec Barbie like my project thinks they're driving the sexiest car at the grid - yet they still have a huge grin the whole time they're racing.
Good luck!
-The aero downforce on the Radical does very little at low speeds and the faster you go the harder you can corner (not just a little, like twice as hard).
-If you intuitively understand mechanical grip on lightweight cars on slicks the Radical will be fun to learn aero on and a riot to drive.
-If you don't, the Radical will still be a riot to drive but it may be very difficult to climb the learning curve and develop your driving skills to the performance level of the car. In that case the Atom would probably be the easier car to learn to drive well and build your skills with because you are learning pure mechanical grip.
Because the Atom has the approximate aerodynamic efficiency of a millwall brick, despite the much higher HP it has about the same top speed as the Radical.
Since you asked about the Aero and NP-01 in another thread, here are three other alternative options to kick around or evaluate:
While ugly, the Lotus 7 family of cars are a lot of fun, lightweight, and affordable to run at the track and race in the few applicable race classes. However, because of the front engine RWD layout they'll be much more forgiving and perhaps more fun than the Atom: when you slightly overcook a corner you can just let off the throttle for understeer or add throttle to slide around it. (With a rear engine it's not so easy to mess around.) As a bonus you can a big V8 if you want a monster. Winding Road has an article on them: https://www.windingroad.com/articles...lica-kit-cars/
If the SCCA is active at your local tracks, you might also look into the cheaper full-on formula car classes like FF, FM, and FC by reading threads on apexspeed.com. The downsides are you need more maintenance and probably trackside support, and not all tracks have the SCCA or another formula car friendly organizer setting up races. In my case I'd have to tow a formula car at least ten hours to run it at anything besides a test day.
Finally, you can not buy a car yet and spend some money to do arrive and drive races. You'll gain some experience, have a great time, and figure out what you really care about. It's not the cheapest way to go but since you can stop at any time and have no strings attached, there's no car to sell, there's no maintenance, no towing, etc,. it's really not a bad way to go. The popular race schools offer programs.
And if you intend to eventually race, check into your local track's organizing groups, their supported classes, and look at the recent race results at the tracks you'd run to find out which classes actually have a decent sized grid of cars showing up regularly. Even if the cars aren't as sexy, it's possible you'd have the most fun racing whatever car fits in one of those groups. Believe it or not, not everyone running a Spec Miata, SRF, or Spec Barbie like my project thinks they're driving the sexiest car at the grid - yet they still have a huge grin the whole time they're racing.
Good luck!
07-28-2017, 11:45 PM
#30
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Thanks Ace!
Right now I'm driving a C7 Z06. Not quite at the limit and I have a very long way to go - but probably 8.5-9 tenths. I want a different car mostly for consumable costs and not having to swap tires, pads, seats, harnesses, etc every track day.
I'm running low 1:32's at Mid-Ohio and I'm not too comfortable getting a slower car.
An Ariel looks like a low maintenance car but comes with a ton of compromise. The NP01 just seems too slow and the components don't look great. The SR3 seems like a nice option.
I'm not ready to race this year or next but would like to leave that door open.
I'm also interested in the Norma but parts availability looks limited, and I would be even less visible to other HPDE drivers.
I'm feeling pretty good about the SR3 - just need to get comfortable with the cost.
Right now I'm driving a C7 Z06. Not quite at the limit and I have a very long way to go - but probably 8.5-9 tenths. I want a different car mostly for consumable costs and not having to swap tires, pads, seats, harnesses, etc every track day.
I'm running low 1:32's at Mid-Ohio and I'm not too comfortable getting a slower car.
An Ariel looks like a low maintenance car but comes with a ton of compromise. The NP01 just seems too slow and the components don't look great. The SR3 seems like a nice option.
I'm not ready to race this year or next but would like to leave that door open.
I'm also interested in the Norma but parts availability looks limited, and I would be even less visible to other HPDE drivers.
I'm feeling pretty good about the SR3 - just need to get comfortable with the cost.