Chris Harris review of P1
03-01-2014, 11:15 AM
#46
Dear carmaven ,
Please remember Chris has his own likes and dislikes . We all love cars for different things and at the end of the day it's one mans opinion and Chris gives it very well indeed .
I still say the p1 will be faster In a straight line at the top end but I assure you on real surfaces in rel conditions , I know who my moneys on .
It really is about what you want from a car at this level . Remember the average veyron buyer is said to have something like 40 cars , that's a mindset and a choice of cars few reviewers really attempt to explore .
Please remember Chris has his own likes and dislikes . We all love cars for different things and at the end of the day it's one mans opinion and Chris gives it very well indeed .
I still say the p1 will be faster In a straight line at the top end but I assure you on real surfaces in rel conditions , I know who my moneys on .
It really is about what you want from a car at this level . Remember the average veyron buyer is said to have something like 40 cars , that's a mindset and a choice of cars few reviewers really attempt to explore .
CH has his biases indeed. And I have no problems with that/him.
My only thing is, he speaks about certain things as they're definitive when they not, and many will believe him cause they feel he's unbiased (though you just noted he has his biases, which he does have). I know he likes to pull peoples legs sometimes, and he can be be generally flippant, though that's not his reputation.
Maybe it's me/you hate to say it: But it's almost like the British press are overtly schilling for the P1, from day one.
It's as if, they're promised a 6 month-1 yr loaner on the P1, instead of the 12C, which I think Nick Trott (or who ever received from Macca), based off what I've seen, read and heard. Lol.
It just appears the British press is feeding into what Macca originally wanted us to believe in the car (as well as the present tense, such as Ring time) with out proper scrutiny of it's real world drive-ability, it's finishing detail, value, manufacturer claims, and top end track vs road performance, etc.
I know these cars are still in the early phase with the media (no recorded test or extended time in them). But where is the restrained or responsible journalism by the British media? It's all good though. SMH/LOL
BTW: I have a sneaky feeling/suspicion the 918 will be faster [even in a straight line] up to the 1/4 mile and maybe even more (150-165 mph) than the P1 or LaFerrari, due to it's electric torque, 4WD, and revisions to it's front motor.
We'll see?
03-01-2014, 02:26 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
Yes AWD does provide a traction advantage in the wet and perhaps for launches in the dry.
But to state that the P1 being 2wd has a "major design fault" and even "F1 cars can race in the rain" implying that that the P1 can't, even though F1 and most race cars are 2wd, simply borders on hysteria.
You almost seem angry at McLaren...
But to state that the P1 being 2wd has a "major design fault" and even "F1 cars can race in the rain" implying that that the P1 can't, even though F1 and most race cars are 2wd, simply borders on hysteria.
You almost seem angry at McLaren...
It's just common sense.
F1 cars only races on tracks, smooth tracks, and also has the benefits of sticky race tires, so traction is not a major concern.
P1 is a road car, that means it has to be driven on normal roads in addition to perfect track surfaces. Putting down 900+ HP with only 2 tires on imperfect surface is just asking for trouble even in the dry.
For sure McLaren know that, but they are limited by the 12C platform as there is no easy way to add traction to the front axle. So while the P1 has unbelievable performance in the dry and on the track, and that's the preferred condition they want it to be driven. But could the P1 be consider the ultimate super car if it's one dimensional like that?
03-01-2014, 03:40 PM
#48
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I guess CGT as well as most F cars would not be for you either. No problem that you prefer AWD, buy what you like.
But to call out 2WD as a design flaw specifically for the P1 is faulty logic, at best.
But to call out 2WD as a design flaw specifically for the P1 is faulty logic, at best.
03-01-2014, 05:36 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
And I will add in reference to "street cars on street tires" if you want to know where the true limitations of traction are - look towards the tuners. 900-1,100 hp on street tires with RWD is attainable with good balance. If you've ever followed the threads over at 6speed in the Lamborghini section you will understand that once you're getting 1,500+ hp to the ground, AWD is a must. Anything beyond that, even the AWD drive cars are spinning up all 4 wheels way into triple digit speeds. Scary. Some of those Underground Racing prepped cars are putting nearly 2,000 hp to ground. AWD with current tire technology & size can't come close to containing all that power. Now, with a true 'slick' non-street tire...
It's just common sense.
F1 cars only races on tracks, smooth tracks, and also has the benefits of sticky race tires, so traction is not a major concern.
P1 is a road car, that means it has to be driven on normal roads in addition to perfect track surfaces. Putting down 900+ HP with only 2 tires on imperfect surface is just asking for trouble even in the dry.
For sure McLaren know that, but they are limited by the 12C platform as there is no easy way to add traction to the front axle. So while the P1 has unbelievable performance in the dry and on the track, and that's the preferred condition they want it to be driven. But could the P1 be consider the ultimate super car if it's one dimensional like that?
F1 cars only races on tracks, smooth tracks, and also has the benefits of sticky race tires, so traction is not a major concern.
P1 is a road car, that means it has to be driven on normal roads in addition to perfect track surfaces. Putting down 900+ HP with only 2 tires on imperfect surface is just asking for trouble even in the dry.
For sure McLaren know that, but they are limited by the 12C platform as there is no easy way to add traction to the front axle. So while the P1 has unbelievable performance in the dry and on the track, and that's the preferred condition they want it to be driven. But could the P1 be consider the ultimate super car if it's one dimensional like that?
History could indeed show that the 918 may ultimately win out between the P1 and LaF as the best "all-around" hypercar of this decade. But it will do so not because Porsche gave it AWD vs. the P1 & LaF being RWD.
I personally don't care how quick any of these hypercars perform in the wet, or snow, or any condition other than a "dry" condition. I personally also couldn't care less that the 918 has removable roof panels. I know I am in the minority, and this is personal preference only, but my 'ultimate' car is a hard top coupe. Period. Hell, my 918, if I could afford one, would be a air-con and radio delete car. Go figure. If I want the wind in my hair, I'll by a 1959 Cadillac convertible. Again, just my preference.
If I need AWD in my daily driver, or a foul-weather car, I will personally choose to grab the keys to the Nissan Xterra that I have sitting in the garage. My father always told me, "Son, use the right tool for the right job." Are you so convinced that your supecar NEEDS to be driven that it MUST be taken to the ski slopes? Put some miles on it another day. Really, another day, it'll be fine. To each their own, but I still can't understand why some decide to make a "daily driver" out of such special cars. Whether you're talking about a 918, or a 911, or a Cayman...doesn't matter. A poverty-spec Cayman IS a special car. Period. It ain't a Camry, or Dodge or Honda Civic. Cars that are meant to have the **** beaten out of them, and driven into the ground and straight to the crusher after 200K+ miles. But I'm glad some supercar owners use their cars in all conditions and for the daily commute. It ultimately breeds better more relaible cars for everyone.
But I digress...To get back to my point: No owner is going to attempt to drive these cars at 9/10ths or 10/10ths in the rain ever. I certainly don't care how quick any of these cars get around the Top Gear track with a (W) next to the time and I haven't seen anyone else (who thinks rationally) that feels differently.
Comparing the P1 & LaF against the 918 which has four contact patches providing traction is still a moot point for me. All would be slower than their ultimate capabilities on a wet track, and it would skew whatever the results in favor of the Porsche.
Sorry for the long read...
Last edited by Zeus; 03-01-2014 at 06:07 PM.
03-01-2014, 08:43 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
Beauty of internet forums, everyone can express their own opinions. No matter the opinion, there will always be someone that don't agreed with it 
Those track numbers will only be good for bench racers, buyers of all 3 have already made up their mind about which they will pick, a different time here and there is not gonna make a difference to 99% of the buyers.
For myself, if I want a good track toy, I wouldn't pick any of the 3, I would get myself a Ariel Atom V8.
Those track numbers will only be good for bench racers, buyers of all 3 have already made up their mind about which they will pick, a different time here and there is not gonna make a difference to 99% of the buyers.
For myself, if I want a good track toy, I wouldn't pick any of the 3, I would get myself a Ariel Atom V8.
03-02-2014, 01:28 AM
#51
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Beauty of internet forums, everyone can express their own opinions. No matter the opinion, there will always be someone that don't agreed with it
Those track numbers will only be good for bench racers, buyers of all 3 have already made up their mind about which they will pick, a different time here and there is not gonna make a difference to 99% of the buyers.
For myself, if I want a good track toy, I wouldn't pick any of the 3, I would get myself a Ariel Atom V8.
Those track numbers will only be good for bench racers, buyers of all 3 have already made up their mind about which they will pick, a different time here and there is not gonna make a difference to 99% of the buyers.
For myself, if I want a good track toy, I wouldn't pick any of the 3, I would get myself a Ariel Atom V8.
At the end of the day, just buy what you like.
I just find people amusing who express an opinion as fact about something they obviously have no experience with.
03-02-2014, 05:41 AM
#52
Rennlist Member
I valued the low end of the performance spectrum more than the high end, 0-60, 0-100 is more important to me than 120-200 or the top end speed as I lived in North America, had I lived in Germany with access to the Autobahn, I might value the top end more as that part is more usable. Also, since I am located in the Pacific Northwest and not Dubai, the all around performance is more important than pure dry speed.
I might take it to the track for a few track days just to stretch it's legs, but seriously, if I want to have fun, I would pick something with a lot less HP and less expensive, as wtdoom said it, it's no fun lapping your friends within a couple laps simply because your car is so much faster than theirs. Plus, with a less expensive car, it's not as damaging to the wallet if I happened to wreck it. Hell, I bet I would have more fun lapping a track in a Miata than the 918 simply because I can spend 99% of the track time at the limit with the Miata. But a Atom v8 is seriously tempting for a pure track car.
I might take it to the track for a few track days just to stretch it's legs, but seriously, if I want to have fun, I would pick something with a lot less HP and less expensive, as wtdoom said it, it's no fun lapping your friends within a couple laps simply because your car is so much faster than theirs. Plus, with a less expensive car, it's not as damaging to the wallet if I happened to wreck it. Hell, I bet I would have more fun lapping a track in a Miata than the 918 simply because I can spend 99% of the track time at the limit with the Miata. But a Atom v8 is seriously tempting for a pure track car.
03-02-2014, 01:14 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
1300-lb
1900 lbs. of downforce
Max cornering grip is measured at 3 Gs, compared to the Radical’s “mere” 2.5.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...-on-our-shores
