960: The Next Supercar from Porsche?
01-23-2014, 02:55 PM
#31
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01-23-2014, 06:23 PM
#32
Burning Brakes
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A 960 that forgoes electrical/hybrid crap, has a carbon monocoque tub, a normally aspirated flat 8 with 575-625 HP, 3000 lb. weight, and, costs roughly $300,000 or so will sell like hot cakes, destroy the value of the 918, compromise the reign of the 911 and eat Ferraris for lunch. I would buy one in an instant. I seriously doubt Porsche will do it. They plod in painfully incremental and measured steps. They do not do revolutionary other than in once per decade super cars serving as technological tour de force demonstrations. Call me a skeptic.....but I will be first in line if I am wrong....which I hope I am.
But since the 960 is now added here with the 918, C-GT..are we so sure it will be build?..Im still not so sure...I know that they are testing certain things..but it wouldnt be the first time a car doesnt make it at Porsche. I remember two-three years ago..people were sure there would be a "baby boxster"..boxster below boxster..didnt happen..
4 wheel drive 960?..not so convinced about that ..but thanks to wtdoom and his information..
01-24-2014, 09:25 AM
#35
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I would bet more GT oriented in the base vehicle so that it has wider audience appeal, but with solid bones that can be refined for a sharper, lighter iteration for the inevitable $70,000 up charge for the "Nurburgring Package". If.....
01-24-2014, 10:12 AM
#36
01-24-2014, 04:40 PM
#37
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Makes one wonder how much better a 960 would be than the 458, 12C or their replacements. Perhaps the 960 would play more in the market segment of the previous CGT, or the Aventador in the $300-400K range.
My statement was more in the context of whether the 960 will be a lighter rear-wheel drive platform with an atmospheric high-revving NA engine, or an all-wheel drive (heavier) car with an engine that is turbocharged.
01-24-2014, 07:50 PM
#38
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Why the need of a 960?
The funny thing is the GT3 is already a direct 458 competitor whether that is official or not.
Makes one wonder how much better a 960 would be than the 458, 12C or their replacements. Perhaps the 960 would play more in the market segment of the previous CGT, or the Aventador in the $300-400K range.
My statement was more in the context of whether the 960 will be a lighter rear-wheel drive platform with an atmospheric high-revving NA engine, or an all-wheel drive (heavier) car with an engine that is turbocharged.
Makes one wonder how much better a 960 would be than the 458, 12C or their replacements. Perhaps the 960 would play more in the market segment of the previous CGT, or the Aventador in the $300-400K range.
My statement was more in the context of whether the 960 will be a lighter rear-wheel drive platform with an atmospheric high-revving NA engine, or an all-wheel drive (heavier) car with an engine that is turbocharged.
A 960 that forgoes electrical/hybrid crap, has a carbon monocoque tub, a normally aspirated flat 8 with 575-625 HP, 3000 lb. weight, and, costs roughly $300,000 or so will sell like hot cakes, destroy the value of the 918, compromise the reign of the 911 and eat Ferraris for lunch. I would buy one in an instant. I seriously doubt Porsche will do it. They plod in painfully incremental and measured steps. They do not do revolutionary other than in once per decade super cars serving as technological tour de force demonstrations. Call me a skeptic.....but I will be first in line if I am wrong....which I hope I am.
Today, the important & key privateers are deserting Porsche because their current 911-based racing models are not perceived as 'competitive' and development work on these models has (for all practical purposes) stopped! You guys remember 'Flying Lizards Motorsports' or 'TRG'/Kevin Buckler*? These folks are now driving Audi R8 LMS and Aston Martins! The answer to Porsche Motorsports' current dilemma will be the 960 & its racing derivates! That is why there is no question in my mind that the 960 (or an equivalent mid-engine platform with another project number) will be produced....and fast! And it will come not a moment too soon!
*Was at a recent dinner with Kevin in Carmel Valley on the occasion of Dominic Dobson's 'Speed Days' at Laguna Seca: http://www.dobsonmotorsport.com/
Kevin also makes a great wine at 'Adobe Road Winery'. http://www.adoberoadwines.com/
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Will the 960 be all wheel drive? Yes, especially for production series. I don't think we will see another production high hp/high torque Porsche without all wheel drive! Too many lawyers/ambulance chasers (especially in the US) for Porsche not to offer AWD plus all the 'nannies' (Traction & Stability) in all future high HP production vehicles! But the 960 might be modified to real wheel drive in certain models to meet requirement of a specific racing series (The FIA & Automobile Club de l'Ouest merger of Group GT3 with LM GTE to form GT & GT+ categories). Let's see where these categories end up requiring of the auto manufacturers!
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Will the 960 be NA or Turbo? We will see. wtdoom has given us some recent feedback on the subject directly from sources at PAG. Personally, I think it will be turbo-charged to satisfy tough Cycle 6 European emissions.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
01-25-2014, 12:06 AM
#41
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Who are you asking? Personally, I don't think the arrival of the 960 will have much effect on Carrera GT prices. I also don't think it will effect that much the prices of used 918 Spyders (at that time). Different market segment buyers for each of these limited production 'halo' cars.
The new 960, however, will effect negatively on the prices of used 991 gt3 and gt3 RS! The earlier .2 997 gt3/RS (especially the 4.0 LE), which are currently living under an abnormal price 'bubble' due to the current 'last of the manuals' market phenomenom, will eventually settled down to a more 'normal' depreciated price range as the 'age' of its technology sinks in buyer's minds, especially when compared to what the 960 will offer at the track! My dos centavos, for what it's worth. And I been wrong before. My wife seems to remind me of that just about everyday...in fact, several times a day!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
The new 960, however, will effect negatively on the prices of used 991 gt3 and gt3 RS! The earlier .2 997 gt3/RS (especially the 4.0 LE), which are currently living under an abnormal price 'bubble' due to the current 'last of the manuals' market phenomenom, will eventually settled down to a more 'normal' depreciated price range as the 'age' of its technology sinks in buyer's minds, especially when compared to what the 960 will offer at the track! My dos centavos, for what it's worth. And I been wrong before. My wife seems to remind me of that just about everyday...in fact, several times a day!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
01-25-2014, 07:53 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
Eduardo, between you & wtdoom, I am beginning to think that a 960 is indeed in the cards! And that it may be turbocharged. Hmm...
Now, who do we write, call or email (bribe) at Porsche headquarters?
I need to suggest, no CONVINCE them to use that incredible V8 from the 918. Then add twin turbos. Massive torque with horsepower in the 750-800 range. Done. Hey, if McLaren can get 727 bhp from a 3.8L V8 why can't Porsche get a bit more from an additional .8L displacement? Especially with a 9,150rpm rev limit. What of a 9,500rpm rev limit with turbos? Turbos don't detract from the rpm limit of an engine, I think.
Also, McLaren & Mercedes are great at making their twin turbo V8's sound better than all but the best NA engines.
Then the question becomes: AWD, or RWD. Somehow, the P1 and LaF are getting 900+bhp to the ground through the rear wheels. Barely. But it leaves hope for a (non-hybrid 918, P1, LaF, 458 Speciale) Porsche engineered supercar for we fans of the brand in the future!
Now, who do we write, call or email (bribe) at Porsche headquarters?
I need to suggest, no CONVINCE them to use that incredible V8 from the 918. Then add twin turbos. Massive torque with horsepower in the 750-800 range. Done. Hey, if McLaren can get 727 bhp from a 3.8L V8 why can't Porsche get a bit more from an additional .8L displacement? Especially with a 9,150rpm rev limit. What of a 9,500rpm rev limit with turbos? Turbos don't detract from the rpm limit of an engine, I think.
Also, McLaren & Mercedes are great at making their twin turbo V8's sound better than all but the best NA engines.
Then the question becomes: AWD, or RWD. Somehow, the P1 and LaF are getting 900+bhp to the ground through the rear wheels. Barely. But it leaves hope for a (non-hybrid 918, P1, LaF, 458 Speciale) Porsche engineered supercar for we fans of the brand in the future!
01-25-2014, 08:06 PM
#43
Mercs sound MUCH better than 12c / p1 imho .
there will be a 960 , engine still between twin turbo v8 and modified 918 lump ( ala 599/enzo ).
Have faith oh mighty Zeus . If this is not so the strike me down with a thunderbolt !
there will be a 960 , engine still between twin turbo v8 and modified 918 lump ( ala 599/enzo ).
Have faith oh mighty Zeus . If this is not so the strike me down with a thunderbolt !
01-25-2014, 08:32 PM
#45
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