CGT Prices
05-13-2021, 09:59 AM
#3166
The listing price is 1000% supported in my opinion from other comps i know traded hands. Good luck to the Isring and a possible consigner. Not sure if isring bought it and flipping or old owner just consigning.
05-13-2021, 12:54 PM
#3167
Anybody who trades in these cars, myself included, listing one for sale at a given price is irrelevant in terms of the actual market - what's relevant is the selling price. I am stating the obvious here, but it's always worth repeating, because many buyers and sellers in this price range in particular are busy people who don't have the time to do deep diligence on private selling prices (which can be hard to get access to even for those of us in the trade), so high asks can cause misleading understandings of where the market is.
In a market such as the one we are in now (very hot), for a dealer who lists cars publicly & broadly, an easy strategy is to simply throw a car online with a very high ask and see what sticks. This is a fine strategy for a dealer, but it does foster the above mentioned phenomenon, which causes many buyers to simply give up hope, and many sellers to have unrealistic expectations. And, from there prices often start to plateau or fall again as a portion of those in the buyer category simply lose interest, and a portion of those in the seller category think their car is continuing to quickly rise in value and therefore decide to hold for a magical number.
All this said, prices have legitimately gone up considerably for Carrera GTs over the past number of months. But this has also brought on asks which are in some cases 25%+ higher than the already big gains these cars have already seen. That's fine, and this is a trend that will continue until the end of time in a hot market (see the same thing circa '15 - '16 collector car market), but asking prices "getting way ahead of the price momentum" as the quoted poster said does have a negative effect overall on the stability of the market for your Carrera GT, and therefore should not be celebrated without a closer look at what's really going on behind the scenes with actual sales, IMO.
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05-13-2021, 01:07 PM
#3168
Should have added - to be clear, my above post(s) are not meant to be taken in reference to any one car in particular, but as an overall assessment on the CGT market at present moment.
05-13-2021, 01:19 PM
#3169
Drifting
I'm in no way implying that Isringhausen isn't respectable. Good people.
Anybody who trades in these cars, myself included, listing one for sale at a given price is irrelevant in terms of the actual market - what's relevant is the selling price. I am stating the obvious here, but it's always worth repeating, because many buyers and sellers in this price range in particular are busy people who don't have the time to do deep diligence on private selling prices (which can be hard to get access to even for those of us in the trade), so high asks can cause misleading understandings of where the market is.
In a market such as the one we are in now (very hot), for a dealer who lists cars publicly & broadly, an easy strategy is to simply throw a car online with a very high ask and see what sticks. This is a fine strategy for a dealer, but it does foster the above mentioned phenomenon, which causes many buyers to simply give up hope, and many sellers to have unrealistic expectations. And, from there prices often start to plateau or fall again as a portion of those in the buyer category simply lose interest, and a portion of those in the seller category think their car is continuing to quickly rise in value and therefore decide to hold for a magical number.
All this said, prices have legitimately gone up considerably for Carrera GTs over the past number of months. But this has also brought on asks which are in some cases 25%+ higher than the already big gains these cars have already seen. That's fine, and this is a trend that will continue until the end of time in a hot market (see the same thing circa '15 - '16 collector car market), but asking prices "getting way ahead of the price momentum" as the quoted poster said does have a negative effect overall on the stability of the market for your Carrera GT, and therefore should not be celebrated without a closer look at what's really going on behind the scenes with actual sales, IMO.
Anybody who trades in these cars, myself included, listing one for sale at a given price is irrelevant in terms of the actual market - what's relevant is the selling price. I am stating the obvious here, but it's always worth repeating, because many buyers and sellers in this price range in particular are busy people who don't have the time to do deep diligence on private selling prices (which can be hard to get access to even for those of us in the trade), so high asks can cause misleading understandings of where the market is.
In a market such as the one we are in now (very hot), for a dealer who lists cars publicly & broadly, an easy strategy is to simply throw a car online with a very high ask and see what sticks. This is a fine strategy for a dealer, but it does foster the above mentioned phenomenon, which causes many buyers to simply give up hope, and many sellers to have unrealistic expectations. And, from there prices often start to plateau or fall again as a portion of those in the buyer category simply lose interest, and a portion of those in the seller category think their car is continuing to quickly rise in value and therefore decide to hold for a magical number.
All this said, prices have legitimately gone up considerably for Carrera GTs over the past number of months. But this has also brought on asks which are in some cases 25%+ higher than the already big gains these cars have already seen. That's fine, and this is a trend that will continue until the end of time in a hot market (see the same thing circa '15 - '16 collector car market), but asking prices "getting way ahead of the price momentum" as the quoted poster said does have a negative effect overall on the stability of the market for your Carrera GT, and therefore should not be celebrated without a closer look at what's really going on behind the scenes with actual sales, IMO.
Collector cars are boring not usable and feather dusted - this will kill a CGT and make a mechanic bill that could exceed 100k.
Flip side is here we are talking about a perfectly good car that is usable at 1m - forget what they paid for it as that doesn't matter but for the perceived pixie dust.
I don't see it as a celebration other than - the CGT IMO has and always will be the top Porsche and if Porsche disagreed they wouldn't be running a program of 1m plus restoration placing those owners in a CGT at 2m.
Last edited by nuvolari612; 05-13-2021 at 01:37 PM.
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raclaims (05-16-2021)
05-13-2021, 05:21 PM
#3170
Rennlist Member
Understand but that is not reality in my world. Anyone including myself spending 1m or holding a 1M car with sales tax property tax storage maintenance insurance is knowingly losing a minimum of 150k year one and 100k per year for the pride of ownership so anyone weighing in on spending 1m knows what they are getting into and outside of mentally anyone who can afford 800k can afford 1M and if they can't they are in over their heads which is not the case - if it were owners would be selling. If it were the case owners would b posting theirs for sale - again it is not happening like it was when they were 4 - 500k. We are seeing new owners or prior owners posting but no one is posting their car for sale and it's now worth double - there is a reason.
Collector cars are boring not usable and feather dusted - this will kill a CGT and make a mechanic bill that could exceed 100k.
Flip side is here we are talking about a perfectly good car that is usable at 1m - forget what they paid for it as that doesn't matter but for the perceived pixie dust.
I don't see it as a celebration other than - the CGT IMO has and always will be the top Porsche and if Porsche disagreed they wouldn't be running a program of 1m plus restoration placing those owners in a CGT at 2m.
Collector cars are boring not usable and feather dusted - this will kill a CGT and make a mechanic bill that could exceed 100k.
Flip side is here we are talking about a perfectly good car that is usable at 1m - forget what they paid for it as that doesn't matter but for the perceived pixie dust.
I don't see it as a celebration other than - the CGT IMO has and always will be the top Porsche and if Porsche disagreed they wouldn't be running a program of 1m plus restoration placing those owners in a CGT at 2m.
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jimmyrepasi (05-14-2021)
05-13-2021, 10:26 PM
#3171
Drifting
Personal Property - 9k where I live sales tax year one 8%
Insurance 4500
Maint 3500
Garage storage 3000 that's being kind
Loss of money earning 7% - 60k ish and the past few years likely 20% sitting in a decent fund.
I think this is on the low side - sorry ...
Last edited by nuvolari612; 05-13-2021 at 10:34 PM.
05-13-2021, 10:56 PM
#3172
Rennlist Member
Sure if including opportunity cost on capita tied up being the largest item on the list. I was thinking you were literally incurring 100k of expenses every year and just no way I could get there mathematically unless doing an engine out every single year.
I get your math now.
I get your math now.
05-13-2021, 11:03 PM
#3173
I yanked my back so here is my on meds est. cost -
Personal Property - 9k where I live sales tax year one 8%
Insurance 4500
Maint 3500
Garage storage 3000 that's being kind
Loss of money earning 7% - 60k ish and the past few years likely 20% sitting in a decent fund.
I think this is on the low side - sorry ...
Personal Property - 9k where I live sales tax year one 8%
Insurance 4500
Maint 3500
Garage storage 3000 that's being kind
Loss of money earning 7% - 60k ish and the past few years likely 20% sitting in a decent fund.
I think this is on the low side - sorry ...
05-14-2021, 12:19 PM
#3175
Drifting
Thats a great price on the insurance! My garage storage would be over twice what your paying. Its hard to say that not having that capital in the stock market is a true cost, yes you didn’t make any money but you didn’t pay out either. Plus you got to enjoy the drive and the experience of having a CGT over that time period. You could actually sell it now for a considerable profit.
CGT buy / sell dollars and pure enjoyment is the best - hands down.
Last edited by nuvolari612; 05-14-2021 at 12:21 PM.
05-14-2021, 04:18 PM
#3176
Rennlist Member
The market is really confusing right now. I have been offered a crazy amount for my plain Jane example; and seemingly less than 1-2 I am being told can be had for considerably less. It ain't worth the headache especially when including income tax. However it tells me how disjointed the market is. Also, one side is likely fos. I know when I tried to replace my longhood after I sold my 69, examples I was told were available at a given price were not and I ended up paying thru nose for one on BAT. it's a different price point so not a big deal but the car market in general and even more so for CGT is really inefficient right now. There some arbitrage if u wanna hassle with it. Good time to be a CGT broker 
Just so much YOLO mentality. But guilty as charged on my latest 911purchaae. I paid what it took to get what I wanted now. I am quite certain if I did a little more homework and had a little more patience I could have found a much better deal. If u want something how you want it, now, whether it's a car or almost any other purchase, u might have to pay up. People are tired of not living life and there's a lot of over compensation with YOLO mentality purchases.
Just so much YOLO mentality. But guilty as charged on my latest 911purchaae. I paid what it took to get what I wanted now. I am quite certain if I did a little more homework and had a little more patience I could have found a much better deal. If u want something how you want it, now, whether it's a car or almost any other purchase, u might have to pay up. People are tired of not living life and there's a lot of over compensation with YOLO mentality purchases.
Last edited by Jrtaylor9; 05-14-2021 at 04:27 PM.
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911Vintage (05-15-2021)
05-15-2021, 09:03 AM
#3177
Drifting
The market is really confusing right now. I have been offered a crazy amount for my plain Jane example; and seemingly less than 1-2 I am being told can be had for considerably less. It ain't worth the headache especially when including income tax. However it tells me how disjointed the market is. Also, one side is likely fos. I know when I tried to replace my longhood after I sold my 69, examples I was told were available at a given price were not and I ended up paying thru nose for one on BAT. it's a different price point so not a big deal but the car market in general and even more so for CGT is really inefficient right now. There some arbitrage if u wanna hassle with it. Good time to be a CGT broker
Just so much YOLO mentality. But guilty as charged on my latest 911purchaae. I paid what it took to get what I wanted now. I am quite certain if I did a little more homework and had a little more patience I could have found a much better deal. If u want something how you want it, now, whether it's a car or almost any other purchase, u might have to pay up. People are tired of not living life and there's a lot of over compensation with YOLO mentality purchases.
Just so much YOLO mentality. But guilty as charged on my latest 911purchaae. I paid what it took to get what I wanted now. I am quite certain if I did a little more homework and had a little more patience I could have found a much better deal. If u want something how you want it, now, whether it's a car or almost any other purchase, u might have to pay up. People are tired of not living life and there's a lot of over compensation with YOLO mentality purchases.
Last edited by nuvolari612; 05-15-2021 at 09:04 AM.
05-15-2021, 11:18 AM
#3178
Rennlist Member
CF tub, manual, v10 roadster, mid engine (amongst other things) Porsche. I know this is a CGT sub-forum; so, I expect nothing but praise for it. I’m not much of a “super car” kind of guy. I’m not even a big hp guy. I AM a porsche nutter. When I bought my CGT, it wasn’t a car I had lusted after; it was a car, as a Porsche die-hard, I felt like I should experience and I got a decent entry point. The first few times I drove it, my impression was, meh, it makes crazy sounds and has a ton of shove-on-tap for any Porsche and looks the part, but it seemed so quirky/odd, I still rated something like my 4.0 or 964rs over it (believe it or not). Over the years and miles, I have sold every other car I’ve owned, including those I assumed were perma-holds, and crossed several potential future cars off my list. It’s the only car I’ve owned that, the longer I own it, the more I truly appreciate and enjoy it. It was not at-all a love-at-first-sight/drive. I assumed it would be gone in 1-2years tops. But on the right day of weather and traffic, I just laugh at how magic this car is regardless how long I keep it and how many miles I pile on.
Setting aside purchasing a different CGT example at substantially better condition/value, if someone offered me 7 digits for my 17kmi, plain Jane 2004 GT Silver-on-black CGT, I wouldn’t even hesitate to say “no”. I’m sure there’s a price that would force me to really consider how much I wanted to keep it, but that price is multiples from even the frothy levels I’m being shown today.
Setting aside purchasing a different CGT example at substantially better condition/value, if someone offered me 7 digits for my 17kmi, plain Jane 2004 GT Silver-on-black CGT, I wouldn’t even hesitate to say “no”. I’m sure there’s a price that would force me to really consider how much I wanted to keep it, but that price is multiples from even the frothy levels I’m being shown today.
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911Vintage (05-17-2021)
05-15-2021, 05:16 PM
#3179
Just read the entirety of this thread - fascinating...
Things I take from it is owners of the CGT confirm is as amazing as I thought it was when I saw it on Top Gear back in ohhh 2003/2004 as a kid.
Maybe one day Ill post in this thread saying I own one. Can but dream.
Things I take from it is owners of the CGT confirm is as amazing as I thought it was when I saw it on Top Gear back in ohhh 2003/2004 as a kid.
Maybe one day Ill post in this thread saying I own one. Can but dream.
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smokeygt (05-16-2021)
