mousecatcher

I know it doesn't sound ideal, but one could just unbolt the seat and add a riser/spacers. I wouldn't let a thing like that stop me from buying the car. If it's an excuse for other concerns, ok, but seriously this is a small thing.

Option 2: custom molded insert like lemans racers use to adjust seat positions for each driver.

Z356

My bad. You are correct. Boxer 8 or flat 8. I have been in America too long. All we think about here are V8's.

From the March 2013 issue of Automobile Magazine - by Georg Kacher

"The solution: a boxer eight. Word has it that Volkswagen Group chief Ferdinand Piech approved this application. Piech used to drive a one-off Porsche 914 equipped with a boxer eight-cylinder, and, more recently, the chairman was said to be driving a Cayman fitted with a flat eight. Featuring four turbochargers, two intercoolers, four adjustable camshafts, a complex multistage intake manifold, and dual-stage exhaust, the 3.9-liter engine is expected to deliver 650 hp. It will be mounted low in the middle of the car, connecting to a seven-speed dual-clutch automatic. The 960 relies on an aluminum-intensive architecture supported by steel, carbon fiber, magnesium, titanium, and other composite elements to keep weight to about 3000 pounds. Porsche is resisting high-tech, heavy add-ons such as the 918's electric motors. All-wheel drive made the cut and adds close to 200 pounds but earns its keep by getting the power to the ground -- 0 to 60 mph allegedly takes only 2.5 seconds. An even more raw, rear-wheel-drive GT edition may follow. No convertible, for now."

Read more: http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...#ixzz2ls4bbLhB

Gofishracing

wow

Z356

I drove the 918 Weissach for ONLY 2 laps. It is difficult answering your excellent questions on such a brief exposure to the 918. In my opinion, the silent start with the Hybrid's electric motors detracts from the overall experience of this 'supercar'. Maybe it's because I am so opposed to the 'in fashion' & 'politically correct' GREEN mindset that is causing companies like Porsche to compromise & force it to worship at the altar of the Hybrid Gods. I can rant more about this if you like - but at another time!

I am hopeful that Porsche, having given its pound of flesh to the Greens in this 918 project, will now be able to create a more traditional (yet state-of-the-art) mid-engined super sportscar for a BROADER segment of its enthusiast base with the upcoming 960 model. The latter, if truth be told, is one of the main beneficiaries of this EXPENSIVE 918 exercise. Many of the lightweight parts & chassis technology developed for the 918 at great expense & effort will be incorporated into this new mid-engined Porsche model. And it will NOT have to cart around the dead weight of the electric batteries & electric motors, albeit without the benefit of the magical red bust button on the manettino. But I am fine with that trade-off. The 960 WOULD not be affordable to so many (projected at under $300K) if it wasn't for the development costs that have been amortized by those who are presently investing in the 918. So to all of you that are buying this fine 918 model, including my friend Doug, let me simply say "Thank You and God Bless!" Me, I'll patiently wait for the affordable (for just the average, run-of-the mill 'rich' guy) version of the 918 - to be called the 960!

I have asked Doug to consider emailing me (or commenting here directly) his thoughts re: the 918 test drive from his perspective as a long-term Carrera GT owner. Hopefully, I (we) will hear from him. In the meantime, let me add more photos from the event. This first set of 15 is of the base 918 on display at the temporary Porsche Zentrum at The Thermal. The color is the $63,000 optional 'Liquid Metal Silver' and this car just arrived in the US from some road test or shows in Europe. Next I will post more photos of the 'white' 918 Weissach at The Thermal track last week.

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel

Gofishracing

a work of art.

Z356

Here are Doug's comments which he emailed me today:

"Too bad about Paul Walker. I had heard the driver was a former race car driver. Either way, I have told you it is a handful to drive fast. Much harder than the 918.

Re: the 918 Spyder. Pros: This is the most amazing acceleration I have ever experienced, period! Surpasses even the incredible fast speeds achieved during my early days with Japanese rocket bikes! Handling was equally superb. In my mind, I am convinced that I could feel the rear-wheel steering in the wider binder curves! As you (z356) said, the 918 was "easier to drive than the Panamera" at The Thermal circuit. At the track, the 918 will be MUCH EASIER to drive than a Carrera GT! The 918's all-wheel drive with the electric front allows for more power to get to the pavement than in the Carrera GT! I have owned & driven extensively five mid-engine cars - a Lamborghini Miura, two Acura NSX's, a Porsche Boxster and the Carrera GT. Without question, the 918 is the easiest one to drive fast...and certainly the most fun!

Cons: The big one is noise. Like the aforementioned motorcycles of my youth, this 918 is LOUD! Also, entry/egress is no better than the Carrera GT, which is awful. And, of course, there is price versus exclusivity. I am hopeful only about a third of production will find its way to the US... but, that is still a lot of cars! My situation is a little unique. I want to have, at least for a little while, the holy trinity of Porsches - a 959, a Carrera GT and now this 918!"

'Amen' to that, brother! The man has found 'religion'!

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel

RIP / Roger Rodas and Paul Walker

Z356

Here are some additional photos of the 'white' 918 Weissach!

Z356

I have some additional information on this subject. On the new hard-cover 918 brochure given to us at The Thermal Club, it lists 'Power Seat Height Adjustment Passenger Side' as an available option at no extra cost! It is available for BOTH 918 Spyder (base) and 918 Spyder w. Weissach Package. The option number (code) is 543. Apparently the prototype 918 (Liquid Metal Silver) at The Thermal didn't have this option, but it appears to be available on production units...for ROW.

I have just talked to my friend Doug. His understanding is that Option 543 (adjustable passenger seat) is not yet approved for sale in the US market. It will not be available for sure on his January 2014 production 918. He has been told by Porsche that the reason is related to an air bag issue. For some reason, it doesn't yet meet US safety regulations. So let's speculate a bit on this. The drivers side sport bucket seat moves up & down. It has an incorporated side air bag to protect the 'thorax' part of the body. The left door has an airbag for the protection of the head. Finally, there is a frontal airbag on the hub part of the steering wheel. What is the difference on the passenger side that would prevent Porsche from offering an adjustable height seat on that location? The seat's thorax air bag moves up & down with the seat, so that should not be the problem. The door mounted airbag covers the head on side impacts. There should be no issues there - that system works fine with the driver's height adjustable seat. So it must be the frontal dash/mounted air bag. Something about the air bag location and projected coverage area in relationship with a seat that is not stationary, but that it can move up & down a few inches. Seems odd, but that is all I the information I have been able to gather to date! Sorry Mike, but I think that option will have to wait a bit before it becomes incorporated into the US version of the 918.


Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel

Maltese Falcon

Eduardo I'm not sure if the white 918 that I drove at Thermal was a Weissach edition. Reason being is it had a real cold blast of a/c coming out from the dashboard vents. I was told that the Weissachs were 200 lbs. lighter, and a/c delete. Am I getting the wrong information ?
Btw... Andrew (McFly) says hello...turns out we are neighbors !
Marty

Z356

Marty: I am almost 100% sure the 'white' 918 was a Weissach Package model. The weight difference between the two is only 92 lbs. Among the significant items omitted in the Weissach are paint (5.1 lbs), the audio system (9 lbs) and what they called 'interior climate control' (2.0 lbs). But all of these three things can be added back to the Weissach at NO extra cost.

But let's take a look at this A/C issue a bit closer. I would have thought that the entire A/C system in a 918 would weigh more than 2.0 lbs. The only thing eliminated in the Weissach is the 'vaporizer' in the 2-zone automated climate control system, which they list as the 2.0 lbs in total weight savings! In my '12 Boxster Spyder, the elimination of the complete A/C system saved the car 12 kg, or around 26 lbs! So I personally don't believe A/C is eliminated in the 918 Weissach Package. It might be just a small part (the vaporizer) of the A/C system which effects the ability to offer dual zone controls. But it does not deprive the cabin of a basic A/C!

If you have studied customer ordering behavior with regards to A/C (standard equipment but which could be deleted at N/C) in the 997 .2 gt3 RS, including the 4.0 LE, you will note that almost all customers here in the US ended up taking A/C and putting up with the additional 12 kg or 26 pounds! In my '12 Boxster Spyder, both the A/C and the radio/speakers were NOT included as standard equipment by Porsche. You could add them back (most did, including me), but at a cost. With the 918 Weissach model, Porsche is (not surprisingly) more generous. Customers can added any of these three options back at no charge!

The biggest single weight saving item on a Weissach is in the 4 wheels made out of a magnesium alloy. The savings is 33 pounds. The second biggest saver is reduced noise damping - 11.7 pounds. Third is the omission of the Burmester Sound system - 9 lbs. Among the other savings are: ceramic wheel bearings (1.5 lbs); titanium chassis screws (1.5 lbs), interior frame made from carbon fiber reinforced plastic (1.3 lbs); no UBS cable (.04 lbs). However, all Weissach models come with a distinctive Aero blades in its tail and Aero covers in the wheelhouse! These add back 2.4 lbs of weight to the Package! But the effect is well worth it! You can see that the 'white' 918 at The Thermal track featured these aerodynamic blades! The 'Liquid Metal Silver' 918 at the temporary Zentrum did not. I am still wondering, however, if the 'white' on the Weissach was paint (a no cost option) or foil (minus the Martini or Salzburg Racing decor)? I will try to find out.

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel

PS-Andrew is a good friend and excellent photographer. He was over for drinks at our home here in Carmel just last August during the Historics! I met him when I owned a BMW Z8. As you know, he maintains a website for all US Z8 owners. http://www.bmwz8.us/ I encourage anyone interested in the Z8 to visit this excellent website. Andrew was also a gt3 owner for several years, so he knows Porsches too! Send him my regards!

neanicu

Very interesting post as always Eduardo!

mousecatcher

thanks again eduardo!

Z356

I wrote another version of this post at an older post here on this forum. But it might be good to have all this information under the umbrella of one thread. At The Thermal, we were given more details about the two special paints - 'Liquid Metal Silver' & 'Liquid Metal Chrome Blue' - available exclusively for this model. It is a $63,000 option! You heard right - $63K! That is $1K more than the base price of a brand new '14 Boxster S!

Here is the official Porsche spiel as quoted from their latest hardcopy 918 sales brochure:

"Nine coats of the Liquid Metal paint applied with high precision, three manual processing stages, and three final clear coats guarantee impressive light reflection and extraordinary depth. Every reflection helps to emphasize the contours of the 918 Spyder with even more clarity. The paint is highly vibrant and gives the surface the appearance of liquid metal. We'd even go so far as to claim that rarely has a concept been realized so tangibly."

Porsche had a prototype base 918 painted 'Liquid Metal Silver' at display for our event. See first photo below. That day was the first time my friend Doug, who has had a deposit on the 918 since the first prototype was shown at the Jet Center in Monterey in August of 2010, had seen an actual 918 prototype painted in any of these two expensive 'Liquid Metal' colors! And he has been a guest at several Porsche 918 'deposit holders' events, including one in Zuffenhausen in 2011 and another in Las Vegas in 2012. So this 'Liquid Metal Silver' 918 at The Thermal was a indeed a rare sighting. What was explained to him at the '12 Las Vegas 918 meet was that the 'unique process' of applying these two 'Liquid Metal' paints involve using magnets to line up the metallic flakes in set directional patterns once the liquid paint has been applied to the surface! I am not kidding - MAGNETS! This was confirmed to us by Melissa Witek, who works with Sascha Glaeser in managing all of 'Porsche Exclusive' for the United States. The magnets arrange the exact position & orientation of the metallic flakes in the liquid paint as it's applied to the surfaces. As a result, they will be able to better predict exactly how light will reflect once it strikes the 918's surface and bounces back to be seen by your eye! It sounds terrific and totally 'high tech', which matches the character of this car to a T!

We didn't have a 918 at The Thermal painted in the other $63K optional paint - 'Liquid Metal Chrome Blue'. However, I believe we have seen this before on the 918 Coupe RSR prototype that Porsche has shown before at various shows & events, including Monterey during the Historics a few years ago! The last two photos attached were taken by the talented photographer & fellow Rennlister 'Mile2424' at the Quail Lodge in Carmel Valley.

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...906-911-a.html

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel

Zeus

Such an awesome post Eduardo...

As someone who is seriously considering both an A/C delete and radio/speakers delete on a future 991, this could be extremely helpful information! Come order time I’ll definitely be asking if an A/C delete is just the vaporizer, or the elimination of the complete A/C system on a 991 911. Hopefully it is the latter. From Porsche’s perspective, I can see why they perhaps did what they did and also for any future owner wanting to add the ‘option’ of working A/C at a later date. I figure once I go down that road though, I would accept it and savor every last ounce of weight saved.

Some might think it too extreme for a 911; but I might even ask if other weight savings options currently found on the 918 will trickle-down or are available for the GT3/2 - such as the ceramic wheel bearings, titanium chassis screws or maybe even magnesium versions of those gorgeous wheels found on the new GT3.

Z356

I think for sure we will see some of these extreme weight reduction 'items' in the upcoming 960 mid-engined model. I have this feeling that Porsche is looking past the 991 gt3 and soon-to-be-released gt3 RS...and are beginning to concentrate their efforts & technical expertise on this upcoming 960 model!

I say that because we have heard that the 991 gt3 might be limited to the just-released version (in other words, no .2 991 gt3 in the future!) and that the MY2015 .1 991 RS might be also it! Notice that a version of the electric 'Rear Axle Steering' developed for the 918 was brought into the 991 gt3 after it proved successful in the 918 prototypes. This was a late addition to the gt3 model and it has been somewhat controversial (it adds weight & complexity). Even Andreas Preuninger was initially skeptical but changed his mind at the last minute. Fine and well. But I don't think Porsche can afford to put many of the 918's extreme weight savings parts (like those you suggested) on any of their 991's, including their 991 gt3. The latter has a base price of US$130,400. For example, the magnesium wheels of the 918 Weissach Package are available to the standard 918 Spyder buyer for nearly $32,500 extra cost! That would constitute an expense that represents 25% of the gt3's base price. So these lighter weight magnesium wheels would not be a practical or affordable offering in a 991, in my opinion.

However, the upcoming 960 will be the model that profits the most from EVERYTHING that Weissach has learned in developing the 918 for its limited production, including all of its innovative light weight components. Chris Harris talked about this in his first 918 test drive at Leipzig back in March of 2013!


This 960 model is logically where Porsche will place the MOST effort now in order to create the 'next best' enthusiast model for track use by their customers! Some here at this forum have rightfully suggested that the 960 will not be given much publicity by Porsche until it produces & sells every 918 it plans to build! True enough. And neither would you if you had to find 918 buyers for this very expensive model (which they are confident they will have soon). But note that Porsche expects ALL of its 918 vehicles to be built in calendar year 2014. By early 2015, the 918 production will be done, all cars delivered and its sales recorded/booked.

So the possibility of publicly discussing more about the 960, which will be a standout that will be closer in performance to a 918 than to a 991 gt3 RS at a fraction of the 918's price, is only slightly over one year away! Let's be patient. We are almost there. In my opinion, the 918 is a break-even or perhaps even a loss-leader for Porsche! But they will make the profits on the 960! The current 918 will pay for the bulk of the 960's development costs and, unlike the former or the Carrera GT, it will not be a limited production vehicle! They will sell more 960's than the current gt3 RS's. It is new & light weight. It is mid-engine. It will be powerful. It will be AWD. It is the FeFi. It is supposed to be the 'Slayer of Italian Dragons' at tracks all over the world, including the Circuit de la Sarthe at LeMans! It is the ''Great White Hope' from Zuffenhausen. It's supposed to be priced at around $250K. And I want one.

So the 911 gt3 era is about to end...and the 960's is about to begin! But while it's still here with us, we say 'long live' to the reigning gt3 king!

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel

PS Chris Harris is currently in Valencia, Spain test driving the production version of the 918 Spyder at Circuit Ricardo Tormo in nearby Cheste. I look forward to seeing what his most recent take on the 918 will be! We will know shortly!