Ray G

Actually, I think the dealers can't mark up the cars without risking their franchise. What happens is that a "good" customer buys at MSRP, drives it just a few miles, then sells privately, or consigns the car for X + MSRP. That's how it works by my nearest dealer. They NEVER have a NEW car in the show room - it is full of consignment cars for something over MSRP. So, in effect, the dealer gets to sell the same car 2 or more times.

It kind of makes sense. The customer that waits for years and orders a car gets it at MSRP. The people who can't wait, and have the money, will buy from them at a premium. Call it the time value. It's just the market in action.

Nick

Ray, Jeff you both make valid points. IMO, had Ferari built and sold the CGT in the quantities sold by Porsche, the CGT today would be selling for above MSRP. The car would have the brand image of a Ferrari and a F1 transmission which would greatly enhance it driveability.

I have no doubt I would have bought one if it was Ferrari and equipped with F1. The car has stunning performance and doesn't look like an inverted bathtub on four wheels. Just about everytime a drove or was in the CGT, the first question asked by others was what kind of car is that? Just as often, when I indicated Porsche, there was surprise and disbelief. It is a terrific looking car and far from the 50 year silhouette.

Black Shadow

It is not a difficult car to drive IMO in fact it is a very enjoyable car to drive. Sure it is not as easy as a Ford Crown Vic, but a CGT is much more rewarding to drive and isn't that a great reason to own one?

f430

Having logged just a few hundred miles in two weeks (50% of the first owners milage over two years) I can see why some owners are selling their cars. You have to drive it, as it will not drive for you. Just what I was looking for. I find it ironic that the likes of Jeremy Clarkson bitch about drivers aids interfering with the driving expeience yet in the review vs the SLR he chooses the SLR overall. You cant satisfy everybody and some people just have to complain.

AVoyvoda

I find it difficult to believe that anybody would fall for this sort of hype: That you should first to buy a car or two from the dealer at above MSRP, in order to be "considered" in the future for the extreme "priviledge" of being allowed to buy a new Ferrari etc. Lets look at the facts:

In 2005 approximately 5,400 cars were manufactured by Ferrari. The lineup currently includes four models: two 8-cylinder cars, the F430 and the F430 Spider, and two 12-cylinder cars, the Ferrari 612 Scaglietti and the 599 GTB Fiorano. The vast majority of the 5,400 cars produced were V8s.

Over the 5/6 year lifetime span of 430 production then, Ferrari will probably make 25,000 to 30,000 of them. That's a lot of cars. In fact, there will be more F430s out there than the complete production run of the Porsche 964... With these sort of output levels, depreciation is a certainty. As to the more "exclusive" V12s, you normally can't give them away second-hand: potential buyers are scared away by their huge running costs. Loads of 550s and 575s with hardly any mileage are available for huge discounts. It's only a question of time before the 612 and 599 go the same way.

The time when Ferraris were rare, exclusive and limited to the jet-set are well past (bar the limited production models such as the Enzo, F550 etc). Depreciation is a certainty.

Nick

"Depreciation is a certainty" Maybe in London but not in the US. Your arguments fail to distinguish between markets. The US market values the Ferrari brand above all others. Additonally, the numbers you cite are all wrong for the US market. The North American market receives less than 2000 cars a year and recently because of commitments made to our DOT regarding airbags, it will be a lot less.

Ray the reason why there are no new cars in a Ferrari showroom is because Ferrari's are made to order. A car is not built without a buyer ordering the car.

Kolbjorn S

Here in the Middle East my impression is that the market is pretty saturated and the 430 does not move that easily, in Dubai there's been three cars advertised for half a year now without any takers.

Also, the (edit) Seal Grey (:edit) on black CGT from the States arrived some time back to its new owner here in Muscat.

pdxjim

Guess the enzo is NOT that easy to drive!

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...E&refer=europe

pole position

You might be a decent lawyer but you are a poor and only partially informed Ferrari salesperson.

Time to go to school :

A : Depriciation is certain with the 612/599 models as was the case with the 550/575 and especially the 456 which came with boat anchors from the factory so they could be permanently secured in the showroom because they sat for years..........NEW 2000/01 models were still sitting around in 2004...some dealers tried to avoid the allocation of the MS 456 edition but FNA forcefed them or no 360/430's. Fact.

B: Newsflash , all cars , even a Kia are made to order. You get the allocation and you spec the car. No if's or but's. FNA wants a name to it, yeah , pick on out of the phonebook and see my fact above in regards to the 550/575/456, they certainly sat in showrooms brand new. Did the buyers bail ? LOL. Deposit money goes to the dealership not FNA.

C: FNA, BTW the biggest assortment of people with a lot of attitude but zero talent besides political backstabbing, knows very well the dealer gouging with the "used" cars for big $$ over sticker but tolerate it for their own benefits to artificially influence the market.

D: the better dealers get around 40-45 cars (all models combined) per year. You reside in SoCal so you have a couple of dealers in the south, the super clowns in Beverly Hills and one in Calabasas.

E: the waiting lists are total BS because the majority only wants to flip the car to make a buck. Is that the reason that those called "clients" from the US market "value the F brand above all others ?" LOL.

F: your Enzo numbers were nothing more than marketing hype. Ferrari does not have the capacity to sell those numbers. Yet. It is true that potential customers were pre screened but it was only done to avoid speculators and that came straight from Italy, not from FNA.

G: back to depriciation. I let you figure out what MSRP was on a 99 360 but now those cars can be had for a fraction of MSRP and are stone cold on the market unless they are cheap. A 993 tt has the far better resale value.

H: You make the perfect Ferrari customer. all show no go as you stated earlier when you complained about the CGT not being recognizable but the F car is. I am glad that you are able to buy image....but where is the substance ?

I : you keep mentioning that the CGT is difficult to drive but seem to forget that 9 out of 10 F owners are poor drivers as witnessed countless times by yours truly, myself, on various tracks in Socal. Some of the best laughs I had in my life.
For further proof you should visit Premier Motorsport in Culver City where their "expert" driving skills are on display in various forms of destruction.

icon

hey nick!
this is mr sunshine!
he spreads good cheer where ever he posts!
quite a helpful fellow.
he also apparently spends lots of time around socal tracks laughing!
he has also posted in the past that he has gotten some of the best laughs in his life from watching rennlist porsche owners on socal tracks.
so next time you go to a track around there and see someone laughing,
go punch his lights out would ya!
or at least reposition his pole!

Thomas g.

I'm not surprised about a CGT going overseas. The dollar is super weak. Many more are sure to head abroad!

pole position

LOL, the ACLU has spoken.

Woodster

POLE & ICON thank you!

I LMFAOff !!!

MK

Ray G

Despite agreeing generally with posts by AVoyvoda and Pole Position, the proof is still in the pudding: people are willing to pay over MSRP for a new Ferrari on a regular basis, which supports a "buy it and flip it" market. It's just the market at work. It is what it is. No reason to blame anybody.

AVoyvoda

Those who doubt previous statements about Ferrari depreciation, should look at www.mobile.de, the German equivalent of ebay motors. A quick search shows 65 (sixty-five !) 575s for sale, most with minimal mileage. New price was around 240,000 eu, second-hand asking prices start at 80,000 eu. We are talking of '03 cars or later, the flagship of the Ferrari range.
At say 100,000 eu for a very good example with minimal mileage, this approximates to a 58% depreciation in just three years!!! Compare that to a similar mileage Porsche 993, whose new price in '96 was about 100,000 eu and ten years later still fetches around 50,000 eu or more. The Ferrari V8s will hold their value better, no doubt, but they too will depreciate, especially when the next V8 models are released.
Of course, the US may be a completely different market.