Forgive me, but I respectfully disagree.....
09-26-2005, 04:11 PM
#91
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"Personally, I would never ride in the car again."
Great, we get'cha, now if you'll just relent from repeating the same argument ad nauseam. You wouldn't want a C GT driver to be haunted by your commentary while driving, would you?
"I think guys who take their very expensive cars to driver ed track events think it's pretty safe."
If so, then the instructors & event managers aren't taking their duties seriously & giving them "the speech". Maybe wealthy Walter Mittys aren't the only ones day-dreaming.
Great, we get'cha, now if you'll just relent from repeating the same argument ad nauseam. You wouldn't want a C GT driver to be haunted by your commentary while driving, would you?
"I think guys who take their very expensive cars to driver ed track events think it's pretty safe."
If so, then the instructors & event managers aren't taking their duties seriously & giving them "the speech". Maybe wealthy Walter Mittys aren't the only ones day-dreaming.
09-26-2005, 04:19 PM
#92
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by Nick
What utter nonsense! 
Tell me was it J. Leno, the car, the track which caused his almost fatal spin? The PR line was, it was the track debris.
When the "Stig" spun out several times was it his driving, the CGT or the track?
When the great W. Rohrl after crashing twice insisted on a modicum of safety aids installed on the car was it because he couldn't drive or because he was a jelly fish with no backbone?
When the first demo cars used by car reviewers were wrecked, was it because they couldn't drive?
When Porsche decided that all future demo drives were to be on an abandoned airfield was that because all the invited reporters did not know how to drive?
When the Porsche technician lost control and wrecked a new CGT was it because he could not drive (the dealership claimed the street was wet)?
I never want to be in the CGT at speed in the event of an emergency and evasive (albeit minor) action is required. The car spins too easily. Just too many incidents involving the car.
Personally, I would never ride in the car again. I have no interest in playing Russian Roulette with my life.
Tell me was it J. Leno, the car, the track which caused his almost fatal spin? The PR line was, it was the track debris.
When the "Stig" spun out several times was it his driving, the CGT or the track?
When the great W. Rohrl after crashing twice insisted on a modicum of safety aids installed on the car was it because he couldn't drive or because he was a jelly fish with no backbone?
When the first demo cars used by car reviewers were wrecked, was it because they couldn't drive?
When Porsche decided that all future demo drives were to be on an abandoned airfield was that because all the invited reporters did not know how to drive?
When the Porsche technician lost control and wrecked a new CGT was it because he could not drive (the dealership claimed the street was wet)?
I never want to be in the CGT at speed in the event of an emergency and evasive (albeit minor) action is required. The car spins too easily. Just too many incidents involving the car.
Personally, I would never ride in the car again. I have no interest in playing Russian Roulette with my life.
Nick go back to the Ferrari boards where you nonsense is apparently appreciated we could care less what you think here. The Carrera GT is an incredible car and I am glad a wimp like yourself will never drive one, it would make the real owners look bad.
I was at the track all weekend with a guy who drove his Carrera GT even in the rain and guess what he lives to tell about it today.
Go get a life Nick!
09-26-2005, 05:57 PM
#93
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by wch
"I never want to be in the CGT at speed in the event of an emergency and evasive (albeit minor) action is required. The car spins too easily. Just too many incidents involving the car.
Personally, I would never ride in the car again. I have no interest in playing Russian Roulette with my life."
I find most troubling your suggestion - or, what I think is your suggestion - that Porsche be blamed, held responsible, held liable (?) for incidents involving the CGT. I say they should not, and that such a view is essential to protect the future of on track acitvities.
You also suggest, with considerable hyperbole, that the CGT is a dangerous car. I'd reply simply that your decision to avoid the car is the correct one for you - similar to my decision to give up formula cars. Why not leave it at that? Why crusade against Porsche and the CGT?
Personally, I would never ride in the car again. I have no interest in playing Russian Roulette with my life."
I find most troubling your suggestion - or, what I think is your suggestion - that Porsche be blamed, held responsible, held liable (?) for incidents involving the CGT. I say they should not, and that such a view is essential to protect the future of on track acitvities.
You also suggest, with considerable hyperbole, that the CGT is a dangerous car. I'd reply simply that your decision to avoid the car is the correct one for you - similar to my decision to give up formula cars. Why not leave it at that? Why crusade against Porsche and the CGT?
What many of you are espousing is tire manufacturers should not consider safety(good drivers do not go beyond the limits of the tires), tracks should not be concerned about safety (good driver do not crash so do not concern yourself with track maintenance or set up) glass maunfacturers should not make safer heavier glass (because it adds weight and good drivers will not crash). I can go on but I am sure you see my point.
Finally, if I have been successful in making an opwner of a CGT a bit more wary out on the track thereby forcing him/her to driver a little slower and within their limits, then I have accomplished what I have set out to do. SAVE A LIFE!
09-26-2005, 06:32 PM
#94
"Personally, I would never ride in the car again. I have no interest in playing Russian Roulette with my life."
So then don't.
And yes, for every person that's spun their CGT it was in fact their fault. They're the operator. They spin...it's their fault.
So then don't.
And yes, for every person that's spun their CGT it was in fact their fault. They're the operator. They spin...it's their fault.
09-26-2005, 06:35 PM
#95
"Nick, is it your position that whenever something happens on track, fault should be found, blame assigned, and I presume liability attached? Are you a lawyer?"
As a matter of fact he is.
No surprise then that his litigious mind set extends to the world of exotic supercars.
As a matter of fact he is.
No surprise then that his litigious mind set extends to the world of exotic supercars.
09-26-2005, 06:37 PM
#96
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Originally Posted by Nick
Finally, if I have been successful in making an opwner of a CGT a bit more wary out on the track thereby forcing him/her to driver a little slower and within their limits, then I have accomplished what I have set out to do. SAVE A LIFE!
Well, not exactly. But you do have me wondering if any Ferrari will ever be able to deliver the same driving experience as I currently have in my CGT.
09-26-2005, 06:40 PM
#97
Originally Posted by Nick
For the same reason you decided to install extra safety devices for your Stradale. Put people on notice this car cannot be driven safely at speed unless the driver is extremely skilled. This differs from other cars like the TT and Ferrari which have substantially less hp and weigh more. Both cars nevertheless are equipped with safety devices. They can be tracked safely and within the driver skill level.
What many of you are espousing is tire manufacturers should not consider safety(good drivers do not go beyond the limits of the tires), tracks should not be concerned about safety (good driver do not crash so do not concern yourself with track maintenance or set up) glass maunfacturers should not make safer heavier glass (because it adds weight and good drivers will not crash). I can go on but I am sure you see my point.
Finally, if I have been successful in making an opwner of a CGT a bit more wary out on the track thereby forcing him/her to driver a little slower and within their limits, then I have accomplished what I have set out to do. SAVE A LIFE!
What many of you are espousing is tire manufacturers should not consider safety(good drivers do not go beyond the limits of the tires), tracks should not be concerned about safety (good driver do not crash so do not concern yourself with track maintenance or set up) glass maunfacturers should not make safer heavier glass (because it adds weight and good drivers will not crash). I can go on but I am sure you see my point.
Finally, if I have been successful in making an opwner of a CGT a bit more wary out on the track thereby forcing him/her to driver a little slower and within their limits, then I have accomplished what I have set out to do. SAVE A LIFE!
~B.Franklin.
And btw, give it a rest, in order for you "to save a life" someone would have to actually take you seriously.
Anyone that is so stupid they aren't fully aware a 600hp car can kill them deserves to be a darwin award candidate anyway. We're better off as a whole without such dumbasses.
09-26-2005, 07:08 PM
#98
To die “enjoying what one truly loves” is not really an alternative for me personally, some of you seem to have a very specific preference 
. There are many cheap thrills available (e.g. Vipers and Vettes) if one wishes to experiment with their life and a $440k Porsche should not be in the same category as experimental aircraft.
Regarding driver aids I am not a big fan, in fact my GT3 has nothing … not even PSM, but at 600hp I would feel naked without F1, proper wing and tires. If you don’t appreciate yet the importance of keeping both hands on the steering wheel you will never know the difference a F1 tranny makes. The biggest driver aid IMO is light weight and lots of downforce. Look at the aerodynamics on the GT1, and the weight on a CGT in comparison to see what's wrong. It’s just a $440K lemon designed for the country club.
. There are many cheap thrills available (e.g. Vipers and Vettes) if one wishes to experiment with their life and a $440k Porsche should not be in the same category as experimental aircraft.Regarding driver aids I am not a big fan, in fact my GT3 has nothing … not even PSM, but at 600hp I would feel naked without F1, proper wing and tires. If you don’t appreciate yet the importance of keeping both hands on the steering wheel you will never know the difference a F1 tranny makes. The biggest driver aid IMO is light weight and lots of downforce. Look at the aerodynamics on the GT1, and the weight on a CGT in comparison to see what's wrong. It’s just a $440K lemon designed for the country club.
09-26-2005, 09:49 PM
#99
Originally Posted by Nick
What utter nonsense!
Tell me was it J. Leno, the car, the track which caused his almost fatal spin? The PR line was, it was the track debris.
When the "Stig" spun out several times was it his driving, the CGT or the track?
When the great W. Rohrl after crashing twice insisted on a modicum of safety aids installed on the car was it because he couldn't drive or because he was a jelly fish with no backbone?
When the first demo cars used by car reviewers were wrecked, was it because they couldn't drive?
When Porsche decided that all future demo drives were to be on an abandoned airfield was that because all the invited reporters did not know how to drive?
When the Porsche technician lost control and wrecked a new CGT was it because he could not drive (the dealership claimed the street was wet)?
I never want to be in the CGT at speed in the event of an emergency and evasive (albeit minor) action is required. The car spins too easily. Just too many incidents involving the car.
Personally, I would never ride in the car again. I have no interest in playing Russian Roulette with my life.
Tell me was it J. Leno, the car, the track which caused his almost fatal spin? The PR line was, it was the track debris.
When the "Stig" spun out several times was it his driving, the CGT or the track?
When the great W. Rohrl after crashing twice insisted on a modicum of safety aids installed on the car was it because he couldn't drive or because he was a jelly fish with no backbone?
When the first demo cars used by car reviewers were wrecked, was it because they couldn't drive?
When Porsche decided that all future demo drives were to be on an abandoned airfield was that because all the invited reporters did not know how to drive?
When the Porsche technician lost control and wrecked a new CGT was it because he could not drive (the dealership claimed the street was wet)?
I never want to be in the CGT at speed in the event of an emergency and evasive (albeit minor) action is required. The car spins too easily. Just too many incidents involving the car.
Personally, I would never ride in the car again. I have no interest in playing Russian Roulette with my life.
Wow. Good luck in Life Nick. Something Broke you and I am sorry.
09-27-2005, 01:58 AM
#100
"To die “enjoying what one truly loves” is not really an alternative for me personally, some of you seem to have a very specific preference"
Mikey i hate to break this to you, but you are going to die. Same as the rest of us.
Might be tommorow, or next week, or next year, or 50 years, but odds are when it comes it will be unexpected, things in your life will remain undone, dreams unrealized, and it won't be all that pleasant.
Elvis for all his millions died sitting on a toilet.
Given the choice, i'd prefer a Carerra GT. If nothing else the seat is much more comfortable, and i'll have my pants on.
"It’s just a $440K lemon designed for the country club."
That will outperform a GT1 in every measurable way on any track, over any distance.
I do not mean to knock the GT1 though...that is one SERIOUSLY badassed car.
Mikey i hate to break this to you, but you are going to die. Same as the rest of us.
Might be tommorow, or next week, or next year, or 50 years, but odds are when it comes it will be unexpected, things in your life will remain undone, dreams unrealized, and it won't be all that pleasant.
Elvis for all his millions died sitting on a toilet.
Given the choice, i'd prefer a Carerra GT. If nothing else the seat is much more comfortable, and i'll have my pants on.
"It’s just a $440K lemon designed for the country club."
That will outperform a GT1 in every measurable way on any track, over any distance.
I do not mean to knock the GT1 though...that is one SERIOUSLY badassed car.
09-27-2005, 04:17 AM
#101
LOL, 50 years would be nice, certainly possible ... most likely cause would be heart arrest following sex with a 20 year old girl at the time, not driving a stupid car, although still not my wish 
I think you are seriously misinformed about the both the GT1 and the CGT. A modified * street legal * GT2 just beat the CGT around the ring at 7:15 and the GT1 would likely be a full MINUTE faster. That car has downforce equal to its weight. The CGT and GT1 share their suspension and chassis technology, but the street GT1 is basically a full race car.
I think you are seriously misinformed about the both the GT1 and the CGT. A modified * street legal * GT2 just beat the CGT around the ring at 7:15 and the GT1 would likely be a full MINUTE faster. That car has downforce equal to its weight. The CGT and GT1 share their suspension and chassis technology, but the street GT1 is basically a full race car.
09-27-2005, 08:58 AM
#102
Burning Brakes
1997 Porsche 911 GT1
Curb Weight: 2756 lbs
Type: Twin-Turbo Flat-6
Horsepower: 544 bhp @ 7000 rpm
Torque: 443 lb-ft @ 4750 rpm
0-60 mph: 3.6 sec
Quarter Mile: 11.6 sec @ 123 mph
Skidpad: .99g
Top Speed: 206 mph
Porsche Carrera GT
Curb Weight: 3042 lbs
Type: V10
Horsepower: 612 bhp @ 8000 rpm
Torque: 435 lb-ft @ 5750 rpm
0-60 mph: 3.5 sec
Quarter Mile: 11.4 sec @ --- mph
Skidpad: .99g
Top Speed: 205 mph
Looks pretty close to me I believe they detuned the GT1 for street use.
Curb Weight: 2756 lbs
Type: Twin-Turbo Flat-6
Horsepower: 544 bhp @ 7000 rpm
Torque: 443 lb-ft @ 4750 rpm
0-60 mph: 3.6 sec
Quarter Mile: 11.6 sec @ 123 mph
Skidpad: .99g
Top Speed: 206 mph
Porsche Carrera GT
Curb Weight: 3042 lbs
Type: V10
Horsepower: 612 bhp @ 8000 rpm
Torque: 435 lb-ft @ 5750 rpm
0-60 mph: 3.5 sec
Quarter Mile: 11.4 sec @ --- mph
Skidpad: .99g
Top Speed: 205 mph
Looks pretty close to me I believe they detuned the GT1 for street use.
09-27-2005, 11:01 AM
#104
The grey one is a GT1 1996, pictured on the place Vendome, Paris, during the supercar rally.
To my knowledege, 2 prototypes + 20 production cars in road version were produced.
The white one is a racing GT1 1998. This car finished second during the 1998 24 hours of Le Mans.
To my knowledge, only one road car made. This car was made only to homologate the car as a GT.
By far the nicest road car I've ever seen. This was during the 1998 Le Mans technical check.
This are very different cars. The second one has a carbone chassis.
Best regards,
Samuel
To my knowledege, 2 prototypes + 20 production cars in road version were produced.
The white one is a racing GT1 1998. This car finished second during the 1998 24 hours of Le Mans.
To my knowledge, only one road car made. This car was made only to homologate the car as a GT.
By far the nicest road car I've ever seen. This was during the 1998 Le Mans technical check.
This are very different cars. The second one has a carbone chassis.
Best regards,
Samuel
