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Drove friend’s Senna for about 3 hrs. Sub 3000 lbs and near 800 hp. Insane power, very light, tons of downforce.
Not the prettiest Mclaren but certainly very radical. To me, styling very color scheme. dependent.
its pretty insane. If prices drop to CGT territory, mid 6s, will consider one as a lot of car. Need a good Mcl dealer near by IMHO if considering one.
Not sure if they'll get there, but at the going rate of ~20% under MSRP, they still seem like a great value for what they offer... Would hate to be one of the "gotta have it" guys that paid over though...
Regret selling my CGT few yrs ago. Been considering getting back in to one. If a low mileage Senna was same price as CGT now, at least for me, would be a tough call if could only have 1.
I had my CGT for 5 years, sold it (unrelated to the F40) and have had an F40 for the past 18mo. The executive summary is: very different machines all around (most obviously NA vs 80's Turbo), but I have to say as a 'complete' car the F40 has more for me. As a static object, i feel the f40 design is of a different caliber than CGT truly iconic and perfectly codifying a moment in supercar time. So incredibly evocative from every angle.
Driving wise, I find f40 much easier to drive than the CGT and more enjoyable. F40 feels lighter and more nimble, and the steering is direct with no assists so there is no matching the tactility and feedback. The CGT sound is unique and superior to F40 though the drama of the turbo is very special and it feels like you are going fast in the f40 even at slow speeds.
My CGT had substantially more maintenance costs and to be honest I often was worrying what would need maintenance / break next while driving. This includes the reality of the super low clearance and having carbon underbody panels .. the f40 is easier to drive around small back roads and its parts are actually quite inexpensive and available if needed.
I regret selling the CGT and will get another hopefully!
I've heard really good things about the Senna...can you elaborate more on it please?
Senna the man we know - question could McLaren produce a car worthy. After some original effort and hefty ADM decided to wait and find one later. Luckily on a call was offered the first XP Brazilian F1 theme.
Fast forward Senna is breaking records at every track proving that McLaren did it right and nothing will ever going be built like it again.
The lower door glass shortened window is like a racers go kart - brakes beyond imagination / acceleration beyond imagination. Steering excellent being a feather weight lots of downforce the car feels like a prepared track race car. Seats are comfortable visibility is excellent with great driver feel add the settings you have a large variance to enjoy the car.
Few cars have personalities that relate to owners - Senna is one of the Holy Grails.
McLaren takes a beating being the new kid on the block some warranted some not but no factory has ever built a car anywhere near a Senna and never will. The owners who buy and sell don't understand or appreciate the car which is a common theme. Driven a lot of performance cars own a group of 5 6 7 800hp machines. The Senna is top dog and it's usable - we won't ever see another that can make that claim but these words don't describe the feeling of ownership - it's beyond words.
After the Senna to give you an idea of how good it is - purchased Clark Gable Jaguar Big Gold Healey and mini bikes. I realized that the Senna topped off my collection of track purpose road cars and no longer seek the next best thing as for me the best have already been built. Strong dislike for pork batteries / V6 in exotics.
Hope this helped - suggest taking one for a drive or passenger to tell the story far better than my post.
Super quant, your green f40 is gorgeous! Hmmm, you got me thinking now. Nuvo, I haven't driven the Senna to compare it, but I imagine it's as effortless as a 650s, only more so. I've never really gotten comfortable driving the the CGT. It's raw. Noisy. Kind of like tightrope walking over an alligator pit. The 650 is like an old comfortable shoe. (a very fast shoe). 2 completely different cars. Lightguy, i don't think there is a "best" car. You'll be happy with any of your picks. If you're like me, your "best" car changes over time. I still have most of the cars I've owned. Each car has experiences and memories with them, and just every once in a while, it's great to take out an old friend.
Super quant, your green f40 is gorgeous! Hmmm, you got me thinking now. Nuvo, I haven't driven the Senna to compare it, but I imagine it's as effortless as a 650s, only more so. I've never really gotten comfortable driving the the CGT. It's raw. Noisy. Kind of like tightrope walking over an alligator pit. The 650 is like an old comfortable shoe. (a very fast shoe). 2 completely different cars. Lightguy, i don't think there is a "best" car. You'll be happy with any of your picks. If you're like me, your "best" car changes over time. I still have most of the cars I've owned. Each car has experiences and memories with them, and just every once in a while, it's great to take out an old friend.
Agree on that F40.
650s / Senna with their settings yes just as usable a lot like my MP4-12C but the amount of glass offers an open feel.
Downside of Senna picks up loose gravel and you hear it - open areas suggest two layers of bra.
The turbo sounds up and down are addicting.
Senna makes the P1 feel lazy in direction changes, and there is nothing on road tires which brakes harder. I was lucky to be able to do a direct comparison test driving both P1 & Senna back to back on twisty roads during Quail a few years ago, and while P1 steering feel was the best of the hypercars, suddenly p1 felt like it had "mass", like it needed a moment to compose itself between braking into a turn and changing direction after an apex. The Senna, just, does it. It's simply the closest you can get to the bleeding edge of what you could consider a "road" car. The only flaw I could find is possibly it needs slightly more rubber in front.. but then, there is the Senna GTR on slicks.
I have a video of this day but it was poorly made with just iPhones... I can tell you that on a mountain road the Senna can completely walk away from a P1.
I find the Senna concept to be the pure type of machine which should reach "keep it forever" status like an f40, or a CGT.
Wow thanks guys...I've negotiated on a few of them but haven't found the right price/color combo and was worried if I'd really like it enough to justify the price point having never driven one.
I think maybe I'll turn up the heat on finding one and wait and see if prices drop a bit more.
Wow thanks guys...I've negotiated on a few of them but haven't found the right price/color combo and was worried if I'd really like it enough to justify the price point having never driven one.
I think maybe I'll turn up the heat on finding one and wait and see if prices drop a bit more.
I too assume prices on Senna will drop some. Seems like many 0 mileage ones for sale, looking like speculators got into them.
I think the car's aesthetics are very color scheme dependent.
Senna makes the P1 feel lazy in direction changes, and there is nothing on road tires which brakes harder. I was lucky to be able to do a direct comparison test driving both P1 & Senna back to back on twisty roads during Quail a few years ago, and while P1 steering feel was the best of the hypercars, suddenly p1 felt like it had "mass", like it needed a moment to compose itself between braking into a turn and changing direction after an apex. The Senna, just, does it. It's simply the closest you can get to the bleeding edge of what you could consider a "road" car. The only flaw I could find is possibly it needs slightly more rubber in front.. but then, there is the Senna GTR on slicks.
I have a video of this day but it was poorly made with just iPhones... I can tell you that on a mountain road the Senna can completely walk away from a P1.
I find the Senna concept to be the pure type of machine which should reach "keep it forever" status like an f40, or a CGT.
In all fairness - Senna makes everything feel lazy it's similar to the CGT where appreciation requires seat time.
Well, try to page mrjb29 on ig, he is a very decent driver and has had both and driven both on track on the 'limit', he might be of help.
On my view having driven both and both before and after being sorted, f40 is a damn fun car that you will have a ball and the type of car that you can take in a sunday morning for a 1 or 2 hour shake down, have the time of your life driving wise, park and be pale and shaken with adrenaline and just be glad you are alive. The carrera gt is the type of car that you zone out so much that by the time you stop you might be in another state or country without knowing how tf did you got there and you start questioning if you could not postpone your compromises for the day or next day and just continue to drive. The f40 you will be done by the 2 hour and procratinate for a long time to take it out, a bit like an horror film for those who do not like the genre as a casual experience. This to say they both are very immersible experiences, that deliver this on different ways.
Now on the cars as they usually come. The f40 and the carrera gt both suffer from poor stock handling, as any car that does not get the most basic maintenance, both carrera gt and f40 examples by now will have parished shocks that will greatly affect handling, alignments all over the place are a common point, owners seem to forget to check these and correct them to their liking with both cars, that literally should be one of the first things anyone does with any car, especially double wishbone cars, with the f40 not being possible to corner balance.
As of maintenance, both are expensive to mantain, the f40 by now needing more work than the carrera gt and the maintenance requirements are pretty much the same on both.
on the carrera gt you have valve adjustment, on the f40, especially non-cat with tubis, you really NEED a valve adjustment and itb aligment on the carrera gt you can very well go without both engine out and valve adjustment for a good while.
on the carrera gt you have clutch and sometimes synchros, on the f40 you have to re-coat the insides of the gearbox and synchros too, albeit less common as most take 2 years to change gear, but if you not blip it thru or previous owner didn't you will need them all the same.
F40 has fuel cells, carrera gt has the clutch, difference being clutch doesn't time out.
on the f40 you really need to spend the money and the time going thru and giving a freshning on everything, they have a tendency of leaking oil from block headgaskets, turbos have to be kept in check (again if no muffler, and even with it) you will get one or the two turbos needing a rebuild, not expensive with roller bearings, but can cause quite a few problems from detonation to fire. Fuel system will need a redone to be able to withstand the ethanol on the fuel and might be wise given the years, very few do, but you really need everything, from fuel pumps and tops, lines, fittings, regulators, rail, injectors, it isn't that expensive tho and if you are there might as well do the rest of the rubber.
Not to go on and on on the many fouls of the f40, that by the way, pretty much 90% of them driven around will suffer and owners will not even understand or know they are there, sometimes for years until they either fix it and see how different the car is or it fails and they wonder how and why it burned or failed or is playing up. F40 are though cars. Most parts are available outside of Ferrari, and common with other cars of the time, for example the turbo air valve is pretty much the same as the sierra cosworth rally car, the ecus are similar too, lots of little things like this...
carrera gt, you need to get one with a service history that shows a lot of misc parts on the engine out, fresh tires, kw with lift, the short suspension rods (I still don't know how can some people in the US praise the handling of the car with these fit, car I based my response came with it even aligned was very weird, type of thing you can't really put a finge4 on why) and a good aligment from someone who knows wtf they are doing and you will have the sweetest handling car you will ever drive in your entire life without the fear or scrapping or damaging something.
On service you have 2 or 3 ways of going about it, 1 leave it to Porsche and change everything it needs changing and do not look up the costs, surprinsingly in some service centers you really need to make sure they do check everything, you will spend 20k-30k on a 4 year service, especially on the first if the car was cared by someone in the 2nd field of thought, change the absolute minimum and if it drives, it's good, still expensive, on the long run might be even more expensive.
3rd, the route followed by the owner of the car I based my 'experience ' with, first 4 year service he changed pretty much all the more inacessible parts, did a deep check, from compression, valve adjustment, fuel pumps, etcetc, did a big TLC, from detail, to coating the wheels, but the rest he takes care about it by himself or his mechanic does, if it is accessible, no need to be a big overpriced bill, a LOT of things are shared with other Porsche cars, but the service center charges carrera gt premiums (they have tho), and that is the real reason why the car is so expensive to mantain, a sensor for a 996 that costs 200$ for a carrera gt will cost 1000, despite being the exact same, multiply this thru all the miscellaneous things that will be needed thru out the life and you will have a very big bill.
So, do what needs to be done with the engine out and then do the rest yourself or leave it to your trusted mechanic.
Just as an example a VERY deep service never costs more than mid hundreds, and this is all fluids from steering to gearbox, all filters and the odd bit.
Like this you can very well postpone the engine out service for a good 5-7 years or more (engine mount as well as the clutch, depending on mileage might need a change tho).
TLR In the end despite being totally different they are very similar in the final math. They are both exciting, but deliver the excitement in different ways and on the keep up, they cost exactly the same to mantain, cheap-ish if you are negligent and prefer to drive a dog that looks like a cheeta to spend the money to actually drive the real thing, so-so if you take the time to understand the cars and what parts do they use and what they REALLY need, and be wise to not be hustled and keep the car in top working order, or just leave to one of the amazing centers and mechanics and just pay whatever bill they show you, both brands, regardless of prices for parts, have very honest and helpful people that will try to both preserve your wallet to a degree and really take care of your car, not to fat up their bottom line, but so you can have a great experience with it and not go there until next year or more for the routine service.
06-12-2020, 01:30 PM
Nuvo, I haven't driven the Senna to compare it, but I imagine it's as effortless as a 650s, only more so. I've never really gotten comfortable driving the the CGT. It's raw. Noisy. Kind of like tightrope walking over an alligator pit. The 650 is like an old comfortable shoe. (a very fast shoe). 2 completely different cars. Lightguy, i don't think there is a "best" car. You'll be happy with any of your picks. If you're like me, your "best" car changes over time. I still have most of the cars I've owned. Each car has experiences and memories with them, and just every once in a while, it's great to take out an old friend.
R In the end despite being totally different they are very similar in the final math. They are both exciting, but deliver the excitement in different ways and on the keep up, they cost exactly the same to mantain, cheap-ish if you are negligent and prefer to drive a dog that looks like a cheeta to spend the money to actually drive the real thing, so-so if you take the time to understand the cars and what parts do they use and what they REALLY need, and be wise to not be hustled and keep the car in top working order, or just leave to one of the amazing centers and mechanics and just pay whatever bill they show you, both brands, regardless of prices for parts, have very honest and helpful people that will try to both preserve your wallet to a degree and really take care of your car, not to fat up their bottom line, but so you can have a great experience with it and not go there until next year or more for the routine service.