SSTHO

I have only read about Cup cars, but have never experienced driving one. I am very familiar with 996/997 GT3s and love them on the track and would consider myself a competent DE driver with about 50+ total events. No racing experience/license.

I am contemplating renting a 996 or 997 Cup car for Winterfest at Sebring for a couple of days. Looking for opinions as I don't know what to expect. TIA

FLA997

Steve - Come back down here in a couple months and you can get the experience first hand in my 6Cup after Orbit does their thing to it. ;-)

Veloce Raptor

Stephen, I will add this: they are very different in a few key ways, and require a different mindset to drive. In addition, the 997 version has a sequential shifter that requires a lot more precision & timing on the downshift than you are used to (even with an auto blipper), and also has non-power assisted non-ABS brakes.

Drop me an email, as a follow on to when we worked together at Homestead in June, and I can fill you in on what to expect. My opinion is that renting one for a DE (Winterfest) is a big fat waste of money. But if you're planning to race...I can help.

GuyIncognito

Dave, any opinion on dropping the $10 to do the Porsche GT3 school at Barber?

big fat waste o' money as well, or will that get someone unfamiliar with the cars up to speed (excuse the pun)?

J richard

+1 a waste for a DE, unless the other cars on the track are some serious gt hardware and it's open passing you'll get frustrated pretty quickly. A test n tune or open track day would be the ticket. There is just enough familiarity between the cup and a street car to get you into trouble thinking they are the same. Not. I would take the first steps in with a coach at your side, particularly in a rental...unless they are selling the $14 a day insurance and full tank of gas option...

tedean

Well said....I "trained" in my '10 GT3 and the cup is just a different beast. I kinda think a Cup is closer to a shifter kart

jrgordonsenior

If you could find a 6-cup with softer springs then I think it would be a fun experience. Other than that I think you'd be frustrated. They're night-n-day from a street GT3 mostly due to the suspension setups....

SSTHO

You're far too kind Rob! Really appreciate it, but I can't risk hurting someone's car due to a lack of understanding of the car. Would be awesome to be a passenger to get a "feel" for the Cup car experience! Really had a lot of fun at PBIR last month - first time for me at PBIR and first time for you in your Cup car there. Great to see how quickly you improved your lap times between sessions!

Hi Dave! Thanks for the heads up. You have a good grasp of my level of driving. Not looking for anything very in-depth at the moment. Just thinking of options for Winterfest as I think Erik's on the brink of buying TRAKCAR v1.0.

I would not be interested in racing. I just want to experience a Cup car to see what all the hoopla is about and to see if I would be interested in one for a dedicated track tool. Can you tell me why it would be a big waste of money for a DE? Too quick on closing-in on other cars to get rhythm?

I thought it would be a good idea to experience a Cup car and to drive Sebring again (started to get some feel for the track after my 2nd day). What would you do if you were me for Winterfest?

Thanks for the insight. I was leaning towards a 996 GT3 Cup as the manual transmission would be an easier transition, instead of learning about the 997 Cup transmission. I think Orbit would have a 996 for rental as well.

Veloce Raptor

IMO, that is an excellent value, if you have the coin. The amount of seat time in a brand-new 7 Cup, compared to what it really costs to run those cars per hour, is outstanding. the school cars are equipped with the auto blipper + the excellent add-on Bosch Motorsports ABS, to prevent flat spotting tires and/or sliding into Armco after lockup. So if you really want to learn a 7 Cup, it is IMO the most cost-effective way to do so.

I think if you have the money, rent a 6 Cup, in order to experience it. The reason for my comment was that a properly driiven 6 Cup will have huge closing speeds & cornering speeds compared with a typical DE Cup car. On the other hand, it runs at a closer edge to the limit, and really needs to be there to extract its fullest potential. That doesn't mean you have to drive it that way in a DE, however... But it is a different beast. You will likely stall it more than a few times in the paddock. You will find that you need to be much quicker and more aggressive with throttle blips on downshifts. You will find that the steering is much faster & more communicative & immediate. You will find the definition of a truly firm and responsive suspenion (and one that has muuch less forgiveness of mistakes). You will find that there is nothing quite like a full racing slick up to temperature but that there is a price for this grip: much MUCH less forgiveness when you exceed the limits. And you will find thhat a Cuup will get very hot inside, whereas your street GT3 won't. So it will fatigue you much faster. And you will find thhat the manual shift action of the 6 Cup is fantastic (IMO) but is much tighter and requires much more precision compared to your current car.

In summary, there will be SO much more going on for you driving one, that it might take a few days before you really begin to feel comfortable, and that IMO is expensive.

I do agree that it would really help you to get a coach in the car for at least the first full day--money well spent IMO.

I personally love them. My all time favoritte track cars. I guess Winterfest would be the only DE where I would consider renting one, due to the high amount of track time over 5 days. But you will pay top dollar, since Sebring is a track with real consequences, and folks renting cars as quick as a Cup will price accordingly.

mobonic

I actually agree with VR on this one.

I ahve seen many go from modded street cars to cup and the look on their faces when they get out of the car the first 6 times in a mix of:

OH ****, WHAT DID I GET MYSELF INTO!
and
I WANT MY MOMMY!

I agree that a stiffly sprung 997 cup is more akin to a shifter kart than a 997 GT3 street car, everything is super stiff, precise and oh **** fast on a knife's edge.

J richard

Despite the caveats everyone has voiced, it does not take superhuman abilities to drive a cup, it does take seat time and skill to extract the capability out of the car which is considerable. Many new cup drivers, myself included, get caught out with the wicked nature of the car. I wish I had started with a coach to help the learning curve. The stick is so amazing that you get the feeling you can easily push it, but when things happen they happen VERY fast and they can be VERY expensive. You just have to be way out ahead of the car. If you can swing it do it, if your face doesn't ache from smiling as much as the rest of your body from the pummeling you will know it isn't for you. I have use a DE (instructors group with open passing and few cars) for shakedowns but I totally agree with Dave on the matter.

I used to laugh at the guys going out in their cups and looping it in a warmup session until I went out for the first time on cold slicks and it was all I could do to keep it on the track as I waved 914s by...

Veloce Raptor

+1


+2

Stephen, I will be at WinterFest as part of my contract with PBOC. I'd be happy to do what we did at Homestead for a day, and help you come up to speed if you choose to rent a 6 Cup. I have a ton of seat time in them, including when we were at Homestead, and really "get" them. Might help you get a lot more value out of your rental...

utkinpol

is it really possible to put softer springs on a cup? it gets stiff springs to eliminate all suspension travel as it sits extra low, how can it not to run out of suspension travel limits there on bumps if you keep it at same low cup height but put softer springs in?
it is supposed and confgured to drive on tires, not on springs, isn`t it?
or is it possible and people indeed do that?

mobonic

utkinpol,

you cant be serious. Have you ever hit a bump in a gokart? Its not fun and unsettles the kart and you loose speed.

Softer springs on a cup car will transform the car. Unless you have to stay on stock springs and are Patrick long, softer springs will do wonders on a 997 cup for tire life, drivability, low grip/bumpy tracks.

Also its a preference.

Stiff and low is the fastest, but you better be good to drive it at the limit or you will be in the body shop a lot.

jrgordonsenior

Of course it's possible. Suspension travel is a good thing if you're setup properly. Unless you're running a spec series where you can't change rates I think it's the smartest move for a new cup driver. Even with soft bump and bound settings you want the suspension to travel and you can always cut back the bump stops if necessary. I'm sure some pros like it stiff, but many pro teams run 1/2 the factory spring rates in GA and other series where springs are free.

If you want to learn to drive a cup soften up the springs and learn the feel of the car. It will substantially accelerate your personal learning curve via confidence adn there's little more important....