Got to get a Giken - The ONLY LSD to have.
10-19-2011, 10:51 AM
#61
So, for now, we have the Cusco LSD back in the car and the OS Giken replacement sits on my parts shelf unopened.
When we compared the original OS Giken unit versus the Cusco, we determined that the OS Giken had a lot more smaller parts - granted, I have not opened up the replacement unit, but compared to the Cusco unit for the MINI and the hard racing that we do, we made a decision to go with the unit that has worked well in the past (we had it in the car before we put the original OS Giken unit in) and the Cusco had a lot less smaller parts (we feel that smaller parts could lead to a possible failure sooner - lots of screws, springs, etc.).
I also have full dated documentation of this failure (with pictures) and discussions with OS Giken archived. I provide this statement only to let the readers know that I am not "fabricating" or "embellishing" this event. Also, I purchased my OS Giken unit at full market price. I was not sponsored nor ever asked for free parts.
It is also disheartening to read that OS Giken replaced the unit for the S2000 customers for a known design flaw and that a failure of even 1 or 2 units out of 100's or 1000's are unacceptable to OS Giken, but that the failure rate of probably greater than that in the MINI is apparently acceptable.
"For the MINI Cooper LSD, a weakness in the case design was identified through teams we support and has since been corrected through a design improvement.
For the S2000 LSD, we have analyzed side gear failure in a very few instances as a flaw in the OEM diff case design, which allows for only a limited amount of fluid in the case(<800cc); as a precaution OS LSD side gears for S2000 have been redesigned even though there is no design flaw in the OS LSD itself.
Failure of even 1 or 2 units out of 100's (perhaps 1000's?) of S2000 LSD sold worldwide over the past 10 years is unacceptable to OS Giken."
I would love the opportunity to rectify this situation to mutual satisfaction, but this is how it stands today.
Last edited by Ricky Boo-Boo Johnson; 10-26-2011 at 08:17 PM.
10-19-2011, 11:16 AM
#62
Nordschleife Master
I have a Guard unit in my RSR which is running traction control and have 150 hours on it. Zero issues other than normal plate wear. Why would anyone with a Porsche want to try something else? I just don't see where it makes sense to try something with known issues (past or present), one that has many more moving parts, and one that doesn't offer a performance advantage.
02-25-2012, 05:54 PM
#66
I ran it on my 996 GT2, with no issues. Car ran One lap of america, and thousands of track miles, and always driven the proper way. Only noisy sometimes. I heard of a few diffs going south.
09-16-2013, 08:22 PM
#68
Rennlist Member
Have it in my RS never an issue.
04-18-2015, 08:02 PM
#71
Rennlist Member
My 997/GTB1 came with a new Giken. Definitely not my choice - just how it came. I had a Guard on my previous car.
It took a little getting used to. I don't feel a distinct "hook up" on exit like a Guard. But it does exactly what I need if I trust it.
A subtle distinction: Maybe unobtrusive is the word? My first days required something like an element of trust on exit for me as I got used to the way it works. Thats the phrase that a coach who drove my then new car and had previous experience with Giken also used: "trust".
Which sounds nuts as I say it.
I like it now that I understand the feel and it seems to be wearing well. In fact I am totally comfortable with it. I seem to be able to put power down earlier than equal cars. Is that me or the LSD? I don't know.
I know a few guys with more money, brains and talent that me that use them.
The acid test is: Would I buy another? Honestly, I would love to do an Apples to Apples comparison.
It took a little getting used to. I don't feel a distinct "hook up" on exit like a Guard. But it does exactly what I need if I trust it.
A subtle distinction: Maybe unobtrusive is the word? My first days required something like an element of trust on exit for me as I got used to the way it works. Thats the phrase that a coach who drove my then new car and had previous experience with Giken also used: "trust".
Which sounds nuts as I say it.
I like it now that I understand the feel and it seems to be wearing well. In fact I am totally comfortable with it. I seem to be able to put power down earlier than equal cars. Is that me or the LSD? I don't know.
I know a few guys with more money, brains and talent that me that use them.
The acid test is: Would I buy another? Honestly, I would love to do an Apples to Apples comparison.
04-19-2015, 04:34 PM
#72
Rennlist Member
My 997/GTB1 came with a new Giken. Definitely not my choice - just how it came. I had a Guard on my previous car.
It took a little getting used to. I don't feel a distinct "hook up" on exit like a Guard. But it does exactly what I need if I trust it.
A subtle distinction: Maybe unobtrusive is the word? My first days required something like an element of trust on exit for me as I got used to the way it works. Thats the phrase that a coach who drove my then new car and had previous experience with Giken also used: "trust".
Which sounds nuts as I say it.
I like it now that I understand the feel and it seems to be wearing well. In fact I am totally comfortable with it. I seem to be able to put power down earlier than equal cars. Is that me or the LSD? I don't know.
I know a few guys with more money, brains and talent that me that use them.
The acid test is: Would I buy another? Honestly, I would love to do an Apples to Apples comparison.
It took a little getting used to. I don't feel a distinct "hook up" on exit like a Guard. But it does exactly what I need if I trust it.
A subtle distinction: Maybe unobtrusive is the word? My first days required something like an element of trust on exit for me as I got used to the way it works. Thats the phrase that a coach who drove my then new car and had previous experience with Giken also used: "trust".
Which sounds nuts as I say it.
I like it now that I understand the feel and it seems to be wearing well. In fact I am totally comfortable with it. I seem to be able to put power down earlier than equal cars. Is that me or the LSD? I don't know.
I know a few guys with more money, brains and talent that me that use them.
The acid test is: Would I buy another? Honestly, I would love to do an Apples to Apples comparison.
Excellent write up. Exactly what I was looking for.
03-19-2016, 12:36 PM
#73
2nd Gear
Join Date: Mar 2007
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I'm really happy with my Giken, had it for a couple years now and would buy the same again if I needed a new LSD.
I have OMEGA 690 75W-90 Super EP GL7 my 915 and I think this is the best oil you can have in a 915.
911-79 N/A (0-100~3,5)
Sweden
I have OMEGA 690 75W-90 Super EP GL7 my 915 and I think this is the best oil you can have in a 915.
911-79 N/A (0-100~3,5)
Sweden
Last edited by P.R.; 03-19-2016 at 12:55 PM.
06-22-2017, 01:46 PM
#74
Three Wheelin'
Updates!? 
06-22-2017, 05:02 PM
#75
Rennlist Member
Just because of the arrogant thread title:
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...d-to-have.html
Originally Posted by Paul Guard
When it comes to LSD and suspension set-up, BMC&G is by far the most experienced of any shop in the U.S. Since Brian has taken LSD tuning to a new level through his interaction with every U.S. Pro race team as well as Porsche engineers in Weissach, I naturally value his opinion on various LSD types more than any other shop. According to Brian, extensive testing was performed by Porsche Motorsports in which he was the service technician … once in early 2008 with an ’07 GT3RSR, and again in late 2008 with an ’08 GT3RSR. Porsche gathered every different LSD type that they could find … factory LSDs, aftermarket LSDs, high priced LSDs, moderately priced LSDs, and even one low priced LSD. Onto each of these LSDs was installed a ring gear*, bearings, and the required shims. Each LSD was pre-measured and set up to quickly fit into the same transmission. (*Eight R&P sets were selected with identical R factors, because comparative testing had to be performed in a single day.) Different pre-measured internal disc and plate stacks were assembled for each tunable LSD, which would allow for quick changes in stack preload (breakaway torque) during the test period. The drivers were shielded from knowing which unit they were testing or not testing. Each mini test session was comprised of a 5-lap run, with all results being data logged. There was about 20 minutes spent between each test session installing a different LSD.
1) The lowest lap times and highest driver satisfaction were obtained with Ricardo's new viscous type LSD. This is a near perfect LSD for a number of reasons that don’t need to be fully explained here. Suffice it to say that the ultimate in performance does not come cheap. The cost of this LSD is well over $20,000.
2) A group of LSDs virtually tied for a very close 2nd place behind the viscous unit. These LSDs all had high breakaway torque settings, with the only exception being a very high quality German made LSD with zero preload. All of these LSDs had Motorsports type friction discs. While the handling characteristics of the car varied slightly between LSDs, the lap times were virtually identical.
3) Further testing was performed using lower breakaway torque values with any of the above LSDs that would allow such adjustments. In each case, lap times were significantly slower at these reduced pre-load settings.
4) Singled out by its slow lap times and worst exit understeer characteristics was the lowest priced LSD. Porsche actually spent a little more time testing this unit than some of the others, because they were intrigued by the low cost … not because they were impressed with its “counter springs” or the 20+ plates in it. However, each time the driver was sent out with this unit, he returned to the pits with a “thumbs down” in regards to its track performance. Obviously, no Professional Porsche road racing team would ever run one of these LSDs, despite its low cost.
1) The lowest lap times and highest driver satisfaction were obtained with Ricardo's new viscous type LSD. This is a near perfect LSD for a number of reasons that don’t need to be fully explained here. Suffice it to say that the ultimate in performance does not come cheap. The cost of this LSD is well over $20,000.
2) A group of LSDs virtually tied for a very close 2nd place behind the viscous unit. These LSDs all had high breakaway torque settings, with the only exception being a very high quality German made LSD with zero preload. All of these LSDs had Motorsports type friction discs. While the handling characteristics of the car varied slightly between LSDs, the lap times were virtually identical.
3) Further testing was performed using lower breakaway torque values with any of the above LSDs that would allow such adjustments. In each case, lap times were significantly slower at these reduced pre-load settings.
4) Singled out by its slow lap times and worst exit understeer characteristics was the lowest priced LSD. Porsche actually spent a little more time testing this unit than some of the others, because they were intrigued by the low cost … not because they were impressed with its “counter springs” or the 20+ plates in it. However, each time the driver was sent out with this unit, he returned to the pits with a “thumbs down” in regards to its track performance. Obviously, no Professional Porsche road racing team would ever run one of these LSDs, despite its low cost.