Got to get a Giken - The ONLY LSD to have.
01-18-2010, 06:10 PM
#46
Thanks for your continued comments on the OS Giken Peter. Congrats on your 2nd place at the One Lap of America, it certainly would appear that the OS Giken is tough enough for that, as I know of at least one differential that failed during that event. I am sure that you are going to have years of use out of it.
Warmest Regards,
Erik Johnson
GBox Performance Transaxles
(303) 440-8899 work
(303) 895-4828 cell
Warmest Regards,
Erik Johnson
GBox Performance Transaxles
(303) 440-8899 work
(303) 895-4828 cell
01-28-2010, 11:33 AM
#47
7th Gear
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Paul is the most honorable guy I have met in my 56 years. He took way too much time explaining to me LSDs and why I would be making a better decision by getting the right packs for my needs. He never even tried to have me buy the whole unit. When I gave him the info on my 996 GT3 he suggested that I just have the packs rebuilt. By the way, the Porsche unit cost $200 more than Paul's (2008).
We found no better Diff than Paul's GT unit for all the pro cars we have run as well as club race cars.
We've played with all kinds of diffs over the years and then all kinds of stacks and pre-loads, etc. Laptimes, and handling characteristics, none of them can touch the GT. The double changeable ramp angles has always been a huge bonus especially when we were exposed to wet race conditions.
David
www.moorespeed.com
02-07-2010, 08:15 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
I have both a Paul Guard LSD and a Porsche Motorsports LSD.
Thank you Steve Weiner and Paul Guard... enough said
Erik - FWIW - I find the tone and content in some of your repeated posts concerning, and IMHO it reflects poorly upon your product (which may indeed have its merits).
Thank you Steve Weiner and Paul Guard... enough said
Erik - FWIW - I find the tone and content in some of your repeated posts concerning, and IMHO it reflects poorly upon your product (which may indeed have its merits).
02-07-2010, 08:47 PM
#49
Nordschleife Master
I could not agree more....one of the most honorable guys in the business. It was sad to see him retire, but he deserves it. Matt seems to be carrying the torch quite well though.
We found no better Diff than Paul's GT unit for all the pro cars we have run as well as club race cars.
We've played with all kinds of diffs over the years and then all kinds of stacks and pre-loads, etc. Laptimes, and handling characteristics, none of them can touch the GT. The double changeable ramp angles has always been a huge bonus especially when we were exposed to wet race conditions.
David
www.moorespeed.com
We found no better Diff than Paul's GT unit for all the pro cars we have run as well as club race cars.
We've played with all kinds of diffs over the years and then all kinds of stacks and pre-loads, etc. Laptimes, and handling characteristics, none of them can touch the GT. The double changeable ramp angles has always been a huge bonus especially when we were exposed to wet race conditions.
David
www.moorespeed.com
Regards,
Matt Monson
02-09-2010, 03:36 PM
#50
Well seeing as this thread continues to enjoy many comments, questions, and moments of laughter, I thought that some additional testimonies might be warranted.
For those who are simply not satisfied with their current setup, and are open to new options, OS Giken has some that in my opinion should be considered. Rather then copy and paste to this page I think it better to simply attach the link so that you may see the comments of this differential. I think that you will be impressed.
http://www.osgiken.net/testimony.html
Warmest Regards, and I hope that everyone has a great season.
Erik Johnson
GBox Performance Transaxles
(303) 440-8899 work
(303) 895-4828 cell
For those who are simply not satisfied with their current setup, and are open to new options, OS Giken has some that in my opinion should be considered. Rather then copy and paste to this page I think it better to simply attach the link so that you may see the comments of this differential. I think that you will be impressed.
http://www.osgiken.net/testimony.html
Warmest Regards, and I hope that everyone has a great season.
Erik Johnson
GBox Performance Transaxles
(303) 440-8899 work
(303) 895-4828 cell
10-17-2011, 03:02 PM
#53
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From post #7:
“In the nine year that OS Giken has been making differentials, they have exactly ZERO failures. Now to make this completely understood, that is not just in their Porsche diffs, that is for ALL of their differentials across the board. … These differentials have shown no failure rate, even when put against 1100 HP engines.”
It’s been two years since the above claims were made. During that time, I’ve bit my tongue, learning of failure after failure. But now that over a dozen catastrophic failures (Turbo Porsches with about half the horsepower claimed above) have come to light, without a single report on Rennlist, it’s time to update this thread. I suspect the true numbers to be considerably higher, as a very good job done has been done of sweeping bad news under the rug. (The “redesigned & strengthened” version did NOT solve breakage issues).
Apparently, a fair number of these LSDs were handed out for free, in exchange for ad promotion. One such recipient was Eddie Bello who, after four catastrophic failures, has had zero success in pulling a blatantly outdated and misleading advertisement (featuring him) from the internet. “Free LSD” .. not so free when adding up the cost of collateral damage and/or repeated labor.
“In the nine year that OS Giken has been making differentials, they have exactly ZERO failures. Now to make this completely understood, that is not just in their Porsche diffs, that is for ALL of their differentials across the board. … These differentials have shown no failure rate, even when put against 1100 HP engines.”
It’s been two years since the above claims were made. During that time, I’ve bit my tongue, learning of failure after failure. But now that over a dozen catastrophic failures (Turbo Porsches with about half the horsepower claimed above) have come to light, without a single report on Rennlist, it’s time to update this thread. I suspect the true numbers to be considerably higher, as a very good job done has been done of sweeping bad news under the rug. (The “redesigned & strengthened” version did NOT solve breakage issues).
Apparently, a fair number of these LSDs were handed out for free, in exchange for ad promotion. One such recipient was Eddie Bello who, after four catastrophic failures, has had zero success in pulling a blatantly outdated and misleading advertisement (featuring him) from the internet. “Free LSD” .. not so free when adding up the cost of collateral damage and/or repeated labor.
10-17-2011, 03:33 PM
#54
Rennlist Member
There have also been several S2000s that have blown them up for autocross use. However, on the flip side, they are starting to be used in the BMW community and have received extremely high praise and as far as I know, there have been no reports of failure whatsoever. It seems the technology and performance is good but the durability is highly application specific...
10-17-2011, 04:16 PM
#55
From post #7:
“In the nine year that OS Giken has been making differentials, they have exactly ZERO failures. Now to make this completely understood, that is not just in their Porsche diffs, that is for ALL of their differentials across the board. … These differentials have shown no failure rate, even when put against 1100 HP engines.”
It’s been two years since the above claims were made. During that time, I’ve bit my tongue, learning of failure after failure. But now that over a dozen catastrophic failures (Turbo Porsches with about half the horsepower claimed above) have come to light, without a single report on Rennlist, it’s time to update this thread. I suspect the true numbers to be considerably higher, as a very good job done has been done of sweeping bad news under the rug. (The “redesigned & strengthened” version did NOT solve breakage issues).
Apparently, a fair number of these LSDs were handed out for free, in exchange for ad promotion. One such recipient was Eddie Bello who, after four catastrophic failures, has had zero success in pulling a blatantly outdated and misleading advertisement (featuring him) from the internet. “Free LSD” .. not so free when adding up the cost of collateral damage and/or repeated labor.
“In the nine year that OS Giken has been making differentials, they have exactly ZERO failures. Now to make this completely understood, that is not just in their Porsche diffs, that is for ALL of their differentials across the board. … These differentials have shown no failure rate, even when put against 1100 HP engines.”
It’s been two years since the above claims were made. During that time, I’ve bit my tongue, learning of failure after failure. But now that over a dozen catastrophic failures (Turbo Porsches with about half the horsepower claimed above) have come to light, without a single report on Rennlist, it’s time to update this thread. I suspect the true numbers to be considerably higher, as a very good job done has been done of sweeping bad news under the rug. (The “redesigned & strengthened” version did NOT solve breakage issues).
Apparently, a fair number of these LSDs were handed out for free, in exchange for ad promotion. One such recipient was Eddie Bello who, after four catastrophic failures, has had zero success in pulling a blatantly outdated and misleading advertisement (featuring him) from the internet. “Free LSD” .. not so free when adding up the cost of collateral damage and/or repeated labor.
Upon opening up the transmission, the LSD housing was nowhere to be found - it had grenaded. We sent pics and the unit to OS Giken and they acknowledged that it was a design failure and that the unit had been redesigned. They did send me a new one and replaced it not only with a new LSD, but one better suited to my racing application.
I did have to buy a new transmission, but hey - who doesn't. So, while I disagree with the statement that they have had no failures, they did replace the part and had identified it was a design flaw that had been rectified.
I'm not trying to get in the middle of this - just relaying my personal experience with the product.
Ricky
10-18-2011, 08:49 PM
#57
1st Gear
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OS Giken LSD
Although we do not typically get involved directly with the forums, we came across this thread and would like to offer some insight on behalf of OS Giken Japan. First of all, we thank you Rennlist members for your support and consideration for using OS products and we continually strive to offer the best possible quality parts with the best possible performance. Our goal is to develop and manufacture parts that prove to perform extremely well in any situation, and can offer an unparalleled level of durability. We have been chasing after this goal with an excellent measure of success since the company was founded in the 1970s.
That being said, have there been instances where we have not been able to achieve these goals? Yes.
Are these types of problems prevalent in production-level parts? No. (less than 1%)
Have failures of OS product been analyzed, sourced, and rectified through design changes/improvements, manufacturing process changes, etc.? Yes.
Do we support select race teams with sponsored product to assist with our marketing efforts? Yes.
Do we sponsor anyone and everyone who approaches us for "free parts"? No.
Are the teams we do support through sponsorship encouraged to push OS Giken product to the limit, so that any concerns that surface can be rectified immediately, resulting in a better product for future production? Absolutely.
For the MINI Cooper LSD, a weakness in the case design was identified through teams we support and has since been corrected through a design improvement.
For the S2000 LSD, we have analyzed side gear failure in a very few instances as a flaw in the OEM diff case design, which allows for only a limited amount of fluid in the case(<800cc); as a precaution OS LSD side gears for S2000 have been redesigned even though there is no design flaw in the OS LSD itself.
Failure of even 1 or 2 units out of 100's (perhaps 1000's?) of S2000 LSD sold worldwide over the past 10 years is unacceptable to OS Giken.
For Porsche LSD, side gear failure in some units had been sourced to a manufacturing error resulting in a bad production lot; this has since been rectified. We actually had to return over 50x new units from our warehouse back to OS Giken Japan last year in order to correct the error, and all subsequent production lots of Porsche LSD have tested to be within spec.
Eddie Bello's Porsche was unfortunately equipped with parts from that bad production lot and suffered from a failure; due to lengthened production leadtimes of new parts from Japan, he elected to use another OS LSD from the bad production lot and risk a subsequent failure and was aware of this fact.
Another concern regarding OS LSD for Porsche has surfaced in regards to use of our LSD in conjunction with electronic traction control; it MUST be shut off when OS LSD is equipped. If traction control is deactivated OS LSD will perform as it is designed: to provide stable, reliable, and consistent traction with progressive/smooth locking up to 100%. If traction control is not deactivated, performance may become erratic and result in a failure due to a conflict between the Porsche electronics and OS mechanics. Our trusted Porsche distributor G BOX is well aware of this and can be contacted directly for additional details.
Monitoring activity on the forums is a task we generally leave to our distributors but in this case we felt that a few words from us directly would help to clear the air about the discussions going on here regarding OS Giken product. We understand that some of our competitors are eager to point fingers and "unveil the curtain" on how unscrupulous we are or whatnot and that is fine; if that requires them to embellish figures or fabricate stories then so be it. Our focus has always been to provide the best possible parts so that you, our customers, can drive your cars confidently and be proud to have OS Giken parts equipped, even moreso when smiling down from a top podium spot. Any hiccups along the way of achieving our goal will be dealt with and corrected in the quickest manner possible; nobody's perfect, including OS. (pretty close, though.)
Again, we thank you for your continued support and look forward to developing new parts for the Porsche community!
That being said, have there been instances where we have not been able to achieve these goals? Yes.
Are these types of problems prevalent in production-level parts? No. (less than 1%)
Have failures of OS product been analyzed, sourced, and rectified through design changes/improvements, manufacturing process changes, etc.? Yes.
Do we support select race teams with sponsored product to assist with our marketing efforts? Yes.
Do we sponsor anyone and everyone who approaches us for "free parts"? No.
Are the teams we do support through sponsorship encouraged to push OS Giken product to the limit, so that any concerns that surface can be rectified immediately, resulting in a better product for future production? Absolutely.
For the MINI Cooper LSD, a weakness in the case design was identified through teams we support and has since been corrected through a design improvement.
For the S2000 LSD, we have analyzed side gear failure in a very few instances as a flaw in the OEM diff case design, which allows for only a limited amount of fluid in the case(<800cc); as a precaution OS LSD side gears for S2000 have been redesigned even though there is no design flaw in the OS LSD itself.
Failure of even 1 or 2 units out of 100's (perhaps 1000's?) of S2000 LSD sold worldwide over the past 10 years is unacceptable to OS Giken.
For Porsche LSD, side gear failure in some units had been sourced to a manufacturing error resulting in a bad production lot; this has since been rectified. We actually had to return over 50x new units from our warehouse back to OS Giken Japan last year in order to correct the error, and all subsequent production lots of Porsche LSD have tested to be within spec.
Eddie Bello's Porsche was unfortunately equipped with parts from that bad production lot and suffered from a failure; due to lengthened production leadtimes of new parts from Japan, he elected to use another OS LSD from the bad production lot and risk a subsequent failure and was aware of this fact.
Another concern regarding OS LSD for Porsche has surfaced in regards to use of our LSD in conjunction with electronic traction control; it MUST be shut off when OS LSD is equipped. If traction control is deactivated OS LSD will perform as it is designed: to provide stable, reliable, and consistent traction with progressive/smooth locking up to 100%. If traction control is not deactivated, performance may become erratic and result in a failure due to a conflict between the Porsche electronics and OS mechanics. Our trusted Porsche distributor G BOX is well aware of this and can be contacted directly for additional details.
Monitoring activity on the forums is a task we generally leave to our distributors but in this case we felt that a few words from us directly would help to clear the air about the discussions going on here regarding OS Giken product. We understand that some of our competitors are eager to point fingers and "unveil the curtain" on how unscrupulous we are or whatnot and that is fine; if that requires them to embellish figures or fabricate stories then so be it. Our focus has always been to provide the best possible parts so that you, our customers, can drive your cars confidently and be proud to have OS Giken parts equipped, even moreso when smiling down from a top podium spot. Any hiccups along the way of achieving our goal will be dealt with and corrected in the quickest manner possible; nobody's perfect, including OS. (pretty close, though.)
Again, we thank you for your continued support and look forward to developing new parts for the Porsche community!
10-18-2011, 09:04 PM
#58
Rennlist Member
Ricky boo boo has a failed giken diff due to a bad lot or design and has to eat the cost of a new tranny even though parties involved know that the "poor" diff casing was the culprit?
Really?
Really?
10-18-2011, 10:31 PM
#59
Nordschleife Master
Monitoring activity on the forums is a task we generally leave to our distributors but in this case we felt that a few words from us directly would help to clear the air about the discussions going on here regarding OS Giken product. We understand that some of our competitors are eager to point fingers and "unveil the curtain" on how unscrupulous we are or whatnot and that is fine; if that requires them to embellish figures or fabricate stories then so be it.
I would like to remind you that Paul Guard has no association with the business that he founded and nurtured for a couple of decades. I am your competitor, not he. He is retired and has zero financial stake in the success or the failure of my business.
I have said nothing disparaging about your brand or product. I have not pointed fingers here, though if you read the whole thread you will find that I only posted in response to your distributor's salesman and his finger pointing and claims about shortcomings of my product that were patently false. I don't appreciate you accusations and tone here. I have made no attempts discredit your brand.
Regards,
Matt Monson
Guard Transmission LLC
10-19-2011, 02:09 AM
#60
Former Vendor
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Interesting thread...
We use Guard products, because they work. They are run in the 5 cup cars that our partners run (and we sponsor) because they work.
If we had a diff let go that cost us a transmission we would not be too happy, like Ricky Boo Boo....
The OS Giken may be a fine product, and by no means will I say anything bad about it. But until such time as they are proven reliable, proven to provide a better cost/benefit solution for our customers and proven to stand up to a 24hour race such as Daytona (where we need reliability), we will stick with Matt and his products. We need to sell, install and promote products with a proven track record that will not result in an unhappy customer for us. This should not be news to the OS Giken group, as I am sure they knew this when they decided to compete in the Porsche marketplace.
If the OS diff is in fact a good diff, then they have nothing to worry about as word will get out and it will prove a vialble alternative. For now, we will stay tuned.
Cheers
We use Guard products, because they work. They are run in the 5 cup cars that our partners run (and we sponsor) because they work.
If we had a diff let go that cost us a transmission we would not be too happy, like Ricky Boo Boo....
The OS Giken may be a fine product, and by no means will I say anything bad about it. But until such time as they are proven reliable, proven to provide a better cost/benefit solution for our customers and proven to stand up to a 24hour race such as Daytona (where we need reliability), we will stick with Matt and his products. We need to sell, install and promote products with a proven track record that will not result in an unhappy customer for us. This should not be news to the OS Giken group, as I am sure they knew this when they decided to compete in the Porsche marketplace.
If the OS diff is in fact a good diff, then they have nothing to worry about as word will get out and it will prove a vialble alternative. For now, we will stay tuned.
Cheers