996 OR 997???
09-22-2008, 12:50 AM
#47
8th Gear
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thought about buying a real race car like a forumla atlantic? or an s2000?
ive always thought they were a better investment, cuz they are cheaper, faster and they handle better....
just a thought tho
ive always thought they were a better investment, cuz they are cheaper, faster and they handle better....
just a thought tho
09-22-2008, 10:58 AM
#48
Rennlist Member
I co drove a 996 cup at NJMP and forgot how great they are. The brakes are much more powerful and easy to use than the 997 cup. And the shifting was easier too. I think the 996 is a better car to race unless you really want to work towards being a pro level drover.
09-27-2008, 12:49 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Follow up: I got the 997 and here are my thoughts.
996 Cup: Awesome car, easy to drive, very fun, would not hesitate to own one again. Also there are more 996 cups in PCA than 997 Cups at most races - for now at least - so that is an advantage in that there are more cars to compete with.
997 Cup: I LOVE IT!!! Incredible car.
I think it is easier to drive than the 996 in SOME ways. It feels more stable in the corners and in high speed turns especially (like the climbing esses at VIR for example). Car is much stiffer than my 996 Cup (and my shock pressure were relatively low compared to what I ran in my 996).
The sequential is so incredible. In places where I would have to up-shift mid corner that somewhat unsettled the 996, were a non-event in the 997. For example when going through turn 17 (Hog Pen) and coming onto the front straight at VIR I would need to shift up to 4th at about the apex of the turn. This would make the 996 a little unsettled - not dramatically but it was noticeable enough. In the 997 I just grab 4th and it feels like nothing happened (except for a gear change of course - but no unsettling whatsoever). This was true in other areas of the track as well. Just amazing! The gearbox is phenomenal.
Downshifts are only slightly trickier than the 996, but not anything to fret over in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I still need more seat time to come close to mastering it, but it is not a huge obstacle from what I have experienced so far. I think what I was doing sometimes was blipping the throttle but releasing the clutch as the motor was still on its way up rather than coming down from the blip - if that makes any sense. More seat time and practice will surely help. I did compare what my shifts sounded like in some in car video to what others have posted (analogmike and Cory Friedman's videos on youtube) and they sounded very much alike - so maybe I am doing somewhat okay.
Brakes: These will surely take some getting used to! It is not the lack of ABS! It is an utter lack of "feel". I knew the car didn't have ABS when I got in it, but for some reason my brain didn't register that there is no power assist - until I stepped on the pedal and then pushed a little harder and a little harder.....It feels like pushing on a brick with no feedback. Very weird. But they stop incredibly well. I will surely need more seat time to know how to "read" the brakes. I didn't lock them up yet - but I was going to do so intentionally to see where that happens while I was on old crappy tires. I didn't do it though.
I was driving the car like a baby the first day out. I wanted to be gentle and work into it. I was shifting at about 7700rpms and braking WAY early just to be sure. I drove the car through the corners at about the same pace I would do in the 996 but it felt like I was going slower because the car can handle more speed for sure. In the brake zones for example I was braking at about the 3 to 3.5 marker on the back straight where I would brake at the 1 to 0 markers in the 996. On the front straight I was braking at the 5 - 6 marker where I would brake at the 3 - 3.5 marker in the 996.
To be continued later.....
996 Cup: Awesome car, easy to drive, very fun, would not hesitate to own one again. Also there are more 996 cups in PCA than 997 Cups at most races - for now at least - so that is an advantage in that there are more cars to compete with.
997 Cup: I LOVE IT!!! Incredible car.
I think it is easier to drive than the 996 in SOME ways. It feels more stable in the corners and in high speed turns especially (like the climbing esses at VIR for example). Car is much stiffer than my 996 Cup (and my shock pressure were relatively low compared to what I ran in my 996).
The sequential is so incredible. In places where I would have to up-shift mid corner that somewhat unsettled the 996, were a non-event in the 997. For example when going through turn 17 (Hog Pen) and coming onto the front straight at VIR I would need to shift up to 4th at about the apex of the turn. This would make the 996 a little unsettled - not dramatically but it was noticeable enough. In the 997 I just grab 4th and it feels like nothing happened (except for a gear change of course - but no unsettling whatsoever). This was true in other areas of the track as well. Just amazing! The gearbox is phenomenal.
Downshifts are only slightly trickier than the 996, but not anything to fret over in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I still need more seat time to come close to mastering it, but it is not a huge obstacle from what I have experienced so far. I think what I was doing sometimes was blipping the throttle but releasing the clutch as the motor was still on its way up rather than coming down from the blip - if that makes any sense. More seat time and practice will surely help. I did compare what my shifts sounded like in some in car video to what others have posted (analogmike and Cory Friedman's videos on youtube) and they sounded very much alike - so maybe I am doing somewhat okay.
Brakes: These will surely take some getting used to! It is not the lack of ABS! It is an utter lack of "feel". I knew the car didn't have ABS when I got in it, but for some reason my brain didn't register that there is no power assist - until I stepped on the pedal and then pushed a little harder and a little harder.....It feels like pushing on a brick with no feedback. Very weird. But they stop incredibly well. I will surely need more seat time to know how to "read" the brakes. I didn't lock them up yet - but I was going to do so intentionally to see where that happens while I was on old crappy tires. I didn't do it though.
I was driving the car like a baby the first day out. I wanted to be gentle and work into it. I was shifting at about 7700rpms and braking WAY early just to be sure. I drove the car through the corners at about the same pace I would do in the 996 but it felt like I was going slower because the car can handle more speed for sure. In the brake zones for example I was braking at about the 3 to 3.5 marker on the back straight where I would brake at the 1 to 0 markers in the 996. On the front straight I was braking at the 5 - 6 marker where I would brake at the 3 - 3.5 marker in the 996.
To be continued later.....
10-14-2008, 09:38 PM
#52
Burning Brakes
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Can someone enlighten me on the major differences between the '08 and earlier ('07 and '06) 997 Cup Cars? I'm on the fence between an '05 996 in GTC3 or moving to something that will be competitive in GTC4. Caveat being the money and also that even though I've tracked a heavily-modded street GT3 for the past 5 years, I've not raced a Cup before (only Cayman). Thx. DF.
10-15-2008, 03:55 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
My '08 has a little more power than the earlier ones, and longer gears. It takes a long straightway to pass an '07 car if you come off the corner the same. But I probably gain a little time coming off every corner. If you look at the IMSA GT3 cup results, one guy in an older car is just as fast as the '08s.
I don't know what's up for '09, I hope not much!
I don't know what's up for '09, I hope not much!
10-16-2008, 12:27 PM
#54
Burning Brakes
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So, the same guy in an '06, '07 or '08 is roughly the same, or only marginally different? I'm thinking about whether a '06 car would be competitive in GTC4...
10-16-2008, 03:46 PM
#55
Nordschleife Master
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If the IMSA Cup series was just one run group a 07' Cup would be leading the series. Instead he's leading the 06'-07' cars, while the second and third place cars are tied for the lead in the 08' run group.
If you look at the lap times from last year's IMSA Cup events you'll see that there is little if any difference. Many of last year's events actually recorded faster times though it's really insignificant. My wrench runs both cars, an 08' in IMSA and an 07' in the Yokohama cup series and our local POC events. He says the power difference is almost insignificant but the newer 08' sequential is a better tranny. His run times are very similar back to back and that's Michellin versus Yokes!.....
If you look at the lap times from last year's IMSA Cup events you'll see that there is little if any difference. Many of last year's events actually recorded faster times though it's really insignificant. My wrench runs both cars, an 08' in IMSA and an 07' in the Yokohama cup series and our local POC events. He says the power difference is almost insignificant but the newer 08' sequential is a better tranny. His run times are very similar back to back and that's Michellin versus Yokes!.....
10-26-2008, 04:20 PM
#57
Nordschleife Master
very very fast and confidence inspiring...until it lets go. having tracked GT3 and RS i expected a more muscular version of one of those. in truth it is a very different car. MUCH FASTER!
as you, my real "race car" before this was a Mazda (spec Miata here) and this is easily a coupe of orders of magnitude more "right now". it's fast when i think i'm going slow. there is much to learn. as Nut notes, the tranny is not as difficult to work as some say, and the brakes are, well like pushing a brick. very little feel. be careful with your bias control. mine appears to balance best around +2.8. at 3.0 with the stock shocks the rears lock up and it has been the cause of my only (two) spins.
be careful, if you drive one you probably will become obsessed
11-08-2008, 08:31 AM
#58
Three Wheelin'
997 Cup: I LOVE IT!!! Incredible car.
I think it is easier to drive than the 996 in SOME ways. It feels more stable in the corners and in high speed turns especially (like the climbing esses at VIR for example). Car is much stiffer than my 996 Cup (and my shock pressure were relatively low compared to what I ran in my 996).
Downshifts are only slightly trickier than the 996, but not anything to fret over in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I still need more seat time to come close to mastering it, but it is not a huge obstacle from what I have experienced so far. I think what I was doing sometimes was blipping the throttle but releasing the clutch as the motor was still on its way up rather than coming down from the blip - if that makes any sense. More seat time and practice will surely help. I did compare what my shifts sounded like in some in car video to what others have posted (analogmike and Cory Friedman's videos on youtube) and they sounded very much alike - so maybe I am doing somewhat okay.
Brakes: These will surely take some getting used to! It is not the lack of ABS! It is an utter lack of "feel". I knew the car didn't have ABS when I got in it, but for some reason my brain didn't register that there is no power assist - until I stepped on the pedal and then pushed a little harder and a little harder.....It feels like pushing on a brick with no feedback. Very weird. But they stop incredibly well. I will surely need more seat time to know how to "read" the brakes. I didn't lock them up yet - but I was going to do so intentionally to see where that happens while I was on old crappy tires. I didn't do it though.
I was driving the car like a baby the first day out. I wanted to be gentle and work into it. I was shifting at about 7700rpms and braking WAY early just to be sure. I drove the car through the corners at about the same pace I would do in the 996 but it felt like I was going slower because the car can handle more speed for sure. In the brake zones for example I was braking at about the 3 to 3.5 marker on the back straight where I would brake at the 1 to 0 markers in the 996. On the front straight I was braking at the 5 - 6 marker where I would brake at the 3 - 3.5 marker in the 996.
To be continued later.....
I think it is easier to drive than the 996 in SOME ways. It feels more stable in the corners and in high speed turns especially (like the climbing esses at VIR for example). Car is much stiffer than my 996 Cup (and my shock pressure were relatively low compared to what I ran in my 996).
Downshifts are only slightly trickier than the 996, but not anything to fret over in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I still need more seat time to come close to mastering it, but it is not a huge obstacle from what I have experienced so far. I think what I was doing sometimes was blipping the throttle but releasing the clutch as the motor was still on its way up rather than coming down from the blip - if that makes any sense. More seat time and practice will surely help. I did compare what my shifts sounded like in some in car video to what others have posted (analogmike and Cory Friedman's videos on youtube) and they sounded very much alike - so maybe I am doing somewhat okay.
Brakes: These will surely take some getting used to! It is not the lack of ABS! It is an utter lack of "feel". I knew the car didn't have ABS when I got in it, but for some reason my brain didn't register that there is no power assist - until I stepped on the pedal and then pushed a little harder and a little harder.....It feels like pushing on a brick with no feedback. Very weird. But they stop incredibly well. I will surely need more seat time to know how to "read" the brakes. I didn't lock them up yet - but I was going to do so intentionally to see where that happens while I was on old crappy tires. I didn't do it though.
I was driving the car like a baby the first day out. I wanted to be gentle and work into it. I was shifting at about 7700rpms and braking WAY early just to be sure. I drove the car through the corners at about the same pace I would do in the 996 but it felt like I was going slower because the car can handle more speed for sure. In the brake zones for example I was braking at about the 3 to 3.5 marker on the back straight where I would brake at the 1 to 0 markers in the 996. On the front straight I was braking at the 5 - 6 marker where I would brake at the 3 - 3.5 marker in the 996.
To be continued later.....
Why are the downshifts easier on the 996??
996, 997, c2s, captbirde, clutch, difference, differences, downforce, durable, lasts, long, porsche, presureplate, rennlist, specs, transmission
