996 OR 997???
08-03-2008, 04:16 AM
#16
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I'm really not sure swapping an H-pattern shift lever system into a 997cup is an option- unless you want to completely redo the ECU as well...
08-04-2008, 09:20 AM
#18
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The 997 is a much better car. Stiffer chassis, better downforce, the tranny, better brakes ect.. It feels more like a real race car as opposed to a hotrod street car. With similiar power the 7 will be faster on the straights due to better aero and the sequential shifting. You can brake later in the 7 because you can adjust the bias to the perfect balance while in the 6 it has too much front bias so the front abs kicks in too soon. The 7 will be much more stable in high speed corners due to more downforce as well.
There is no doubt the 7 is a better and faster race car, ........but......if its worth the extra money is dependant on the owner. The operating cost can be a little more with the tranny, (even though a 996 tranny could cost more to rebuild depending on whats worn out) but the race to race expenses will be close to each other.
A 7 is more fun for me to drive, but a good 6 is allmost as much fun (unless you are in a race against 997's
)
Another thing to consider is some of the 996's are getting "old". Alot of parts wearing out that a newer 7 wouldnt need for a while like bearings, axles, engine rebuilds, paint ect.... And also there are no more 996 tubs so in the event of a big crash you would have to patch a 996 back together instead of simply replacing the tub. so the "cheaper" 996 could cost more than it seems.
There is no doubt the 7 is a better and faster race car, ........but......if its worth the extra money is dependant on the owner. The operating cost can be a little more with the tranny, (even though a 996 tranny could cost more to rebuild depending on whats worn out) but the race to race expenses will be close to each other.
A 7 is more fun for me to drive, but a good 6 is allmost as much fun (unless you are in a race against 997's
) Another thing to consider is some of the 996's are getting "old". Alot of parts wearing out that a newer 7 wouldnt need for a while like bearings, axles, engine rebuilds, paint ect.... And also there are no more 996 tubs so in the event of a big crash you would have to patch a 996 back together instead of simply replacing the tub. so the "cheaper" 996 could cost more than it seems.
08-04-2008, 09:25 AM
#19
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Although I would never understand why you would want to handicap the 7 with the "old" tranny. A 996 tranny would be an expensive unit to buy outwright as a replacement.
08-04-2008, 09:41 PM
#21
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The 997 is a much better car. Stiffer chassis, better downforce, the tranny, better brakes ect.. It feels more like a real race car as opposed to a hotrod street car. With similiar power the 7 will be faster on the straights due to better aero and the sequential shifting. You can brake later in the 7 because you can adjust the bias to the perfect balance while in the 6 it has too much front bias so the front abs kicks in too soon. The 7 will be much more stable in high speed corners due to more downforce as well.
There is no doubt the 7 is a better and faster race car, ........but......if its worth the extra money is dependant on the owner. The operating cost can be a little more with the tranny, (even though a 996 tranny could cost more to rebuild depending on whats worn out) but the race to race expenses will be close to each other.
A 7 is more fun for me to drive, but a good 6 is allmost as much fun (unless you are in a race against 997's )
Another thing to consider is some of the 996's are getting "old". Alot of parts wearing out that a newer 7 wouldnt need for a while like bearings, axles, engine rebuilds, paint ect.... And also there are no more 996 tubs so in the event of a big crash you would have to patch a 996 back together instead of simply replacing the tub. so the "cheaper" 996 could cost more than it seems.
There is no doubt the 7 is a better and faster race car, ........but......if its worth the extra money is dependant on the owner. The operating cost can be a little more with the tranny, (even though a 996 tranny could cost more to rebuild depending on whats worn out) but the race to race expenses will be close to each other.
A 7 is more fun for me to drive, but a good 6 is allmost as much fun (unless you are in a race against 997's
) Another thing to consider is some of the 996's are getting "old". Alot of parts wearing out that a newer 7 wouldnt need for a while like bearings, axles, engine rebuilds, paint ect.... And also there are no more 996 tubs so in the event of a big crash you would have to patch a 996 back together instead of simply replacing the tub. so the "cheaper" 996 could cost more than it seems.
08-05-2008, 12:22 AM
#22
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I was on the tail of an '07 cup at Mosport and the '08 power advantage I have could just barely get me even to him by the end of the L O N G straight. Not much difference (see IMSA GT3 cup where one of the fast guys is in an early car).
08-05-2008, 02:15 AM
#23
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From my observations and interactions with a local owner (Don ***), it would seem that the 996 cup was far, FAR easier to operate and enjoy at a club level. The 997 took Don a lot longer to get used to and to actually enjoy as it had a good deal of "kinks" to work out (this was an 05 fwiw). I think hes FINALLY starting to enjoy the car however and maybe even more-so than the 996. That said, I havent heard him talk about a car more fondly than his 996...
(Cory, you need to convince Dez to get a cup and start racing...forget those time trials!)
-Drew
(Cory, you need to convince Dez to get a cup and start racing...forget those time trials!)
-Drew
08-05-2008, 08:01 AM
#24
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i haven't driven a "standard" 08, just the grand-am version. The grand-am model since 07 has had the newer 997 based engine with a little more power. Like Mike said about the 08, the stock grand am car's have a slight edge over the 07 and earlier cars but nothing huge. Glen was kind enough to let me drive his car, it too had a little power advantage with the world challenge engine but similiar to the grand-am engine it wasn't a huge pull on the stock cars. So far all the 997's chassis wise feel the same except for the shock and tire differences between the ones I drove.
08-05-2008, 08:03 AM
#25
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08-05-2008, 10:44 AM
#26
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The 05(with steel brakes), 06,and 07's all feel basically the same.
i haven't driven a "standard" 08, just the grand-am version. The grand-am model since 07 has had the newer 997 based engine with a little more power. Like Mike said about the 08, the stock grand am car's have a slight edge over the 07 and earlier cars but nothing huge. Glen was kind enough to let me drive his car, it too had a little power advantage with the world challenge engine but similiar to the grand-am engine it wasn't a huge pull on the stock cars. So far all the 997's chassis wise feel the same except for the shock and tire differences between the ones I drove.
i haven't driven a "standard" 08, just the grand-am version. The grand-am model since 07 has had the newer 997 based engine with a little more power. Like Mike said about the 08, the stock grand am car's have a slight edge over the 07 and earlier cars but nothing huge. Glen was kind enough to let me drive his car, it too had a little power advantage with the world challenge engine but similiar to the grand-am engine it wasn't a huge pull on the stock cars. So far all the 997's chassis wise feel the same except for the shock and tire differences between the ones I drove.
08-06-2008, 01:02 AM
#27
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How long has your 997 sequential lasted? Have you rebuilt it yet?
That's the real big difference in maintenance costs I have seen so far.
What else on the 997 cup car do you guys feel is advantageous over the 996?
If there is a 997for sale in need of a trans rebuild, would it make any sense to swap in a manual trans, or is it just too much work, and better off to just get a 996.
I think with either car, it really does come down to the driver in club racing environment. When you have significantly slower cars in races running "not that much slower" than cars with significantly more grip and power, you have to look at the big picture.
That's the real big difference in maintenance costs I have seen so far.
What else on the 997 cup car do you guys feel is advantageous over the 996?
If there is a 997for sale in need of a trans rebuild, would it make any sense to swap in a manual trans, or is it just too much work, and better off to just get a 996.
I think with either car, it really does come down to the driver in club racing environment. When you have significantly slower cars in races running "not that much slower" than cars with significantly more grip and power, you have to look at the big picture.
Can't answer your transmission question because mine has not needed any service (other than changing the fluid) for about 40 hours.
You would never want to take a 997 Cup and put a 6 speed in it. The Sequential is superior. I think durability can be impacted by the individual driver as well. If you are hard on cars, then the 997 transmission may be less durable. But plenty have survived the 24 hours of Daytona and nothing we ever do could be as hard on a car as that!
Others have addressed other advantages.
JCM
08-06-2008, 01:23 AM
#28
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Wow, so 40 hours on the sequential interesting.
Are others in club racing and track day environments, who drive "not as hard/rough" getting this kind of life out of the trans?
If so, its really a no brainer, 7 it is
Are others in club racing and track day environments, who drive "not as hard/rough" getting this kind of life out of the trans?
If so, its really a no brainer, 7 it is
08-06-2008, 03:08 AM
#29
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I generally hear ballpark rebuilds of 30-40 hours on engine, 40 on trans. A few guys I've heard have crazy 80-100 hours on their 996 engines but I'm guessing they'll just explode at some point?
08-06-2008, 08:48 AM
#30
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As for trannys, eventually they will wear out but again, the numbers bantered around are not reality based. Clutches and pressure plates will go sooner than the other parts especially if you use your clutch getting in/out of the trailer and around the garage/paddock. Mine made it about 60 hours before imploding....
The real expense of cup ownership is in the tires. Michelin's work best by far but they'ye become more and more expensive, about $2k for a set of blues these days.
Now the Spec Boxster....