m42racer

I heard today that the sealed engine program may be dropped in 09. Has any one heard this and can confirm this.

If this is true, it will be the best thing ever to happen to Cup racing in the US. Finally no more Porsche BLACKMAIL.

Geoffrey

Hi Simon,

I don't know if unsealing the engines equates to being able to purchase the necessary parts to rebuild the engines from PMNA. Is that what you were thinking?

John H

I am thinking cheating will run rampant.

jrgordonsenior

Many 996 cup motors have been rebuilt buying the necessary parts from Germany. Motorsports still won't sell the parts here which limits their competiton of course. Any anti-trust lawyers out there....

I've heard rumors of 3.8 cup rebuilds but I've never seen one that I know of. I think it would be noticable if any cup was noticably faster than another. My motor with 80+ hours is as quick as any 6-cup I've ever raced against....

Geoffrey

You would still need some type of programming for a 3.8 Cup engine and PCA has the tools to check the GT3 Cup car programming. We did a few at Sebring.

bgiere

...I see John H is now patrolling the Cup Car forum...John, is there anything we should know?

m42racer

I heard that in 09 all Grand AM engines including GT will require the use of the 4.3 ECU. This will "open" up the programming to all.

Under the general engine rules, all parts must be made available to all competitors. I'm hoping Grand Am makes Porsche comply. The blackmail exerted by Porsche on all of us can no longer continue. The anti trust issue has never been considered as it would have to be brought by individuals. Anyone interested? The problem is as I see it, everyone just wants to race and not be bothered to take the hand that feeds us to justice. It's a shame that Porsche won't play by the rules of commerical law. I know from discussing this with Germany, they do not consider this to be fair, but the profits are more important.

I think the more others build and look else where for rebuilds, the EFI system used becomes the 4.3 version and all can get the software, the opportunity for Porsche to control the parts etc will diminish. Lets hope so.

I am one who does not use Porsche and the parts I use all come directly from Germany. The engines are built with care and consideration. Unlike Porsche where all engines are considered "customer" types and "thats good enough" will do attitude is applied. I want my engines to be as good as they can be, with all chance to produce the maximum Torque possible. If the Cams can be retimed for different tracks to give better Torque and response to suit the track, I want that. Not the same old menu served up all of the time. This is what happened to the 962 customers. They all got fed up with getting the same old stuff. Germany will not allow Springer to make any changes. They consider him a "joke" over there. As long as he did what they told him, he was OK. He has certainly made them alot of money, but by blackmailing the customers and hood winking Grand AM. If anyone thinks he still doesn't control what goes on there, think again.

As for cheating, why would it happen only in these engines and not the other GT engines? Cheating is something that needs to be controlled by Grand AM, not Porsche. In fact the only cheating I have seen to date is on the invoice I received from Porsche after the engine was rebuilt.

Here's hoping for a change.

jrgordonsenior

Any obvious variations?

Geoffrey

It will be interesting to see the Grand Am specific configuration. The current Bosch Motorsports 3.1 ECU that is in the GT3 cars is the same basic unit that you can purchase from Bosch with the exception that the software is password protected, and unique to Porsche to deal with the pins that have been physically moved on the unit. Now with the Grand Am specific Bosch Motorsports 4.3 ECU which is the spec ECU for Grand Am, you can purchase the software and reprogram an engine. However, I'd have to believe that the programming code in the Porsche would again be password protected and therefore locked. You can overwrite that code with new code, but that means writing the program from scratch.

I had the opportunity to do a MoTeC system on a GT3R and it made 20whp more than the factory Bosch 3.1 programming which I thought to be odd.

m42racer

Geoffrey,

Not odd at all. Every engine ever reprogrammed after Porsche has made more HP. Not only is the dyno at PMNA off, the programming is "locked" at Germany with very little changes done here. If all engines are built the same, have the same programming, and most of the cars are Porsche's why bother changing it. Thats their MO, and has always been. Thats the cheating that is going on. Take a look at what they charge for a dyno after a rebuild. All they do is make sure the there are no errors, no leaks and that the engine makes a certain HP. Then its off the dyno and tell the customer to "bend over and touch his toes".

I have to admit I have done this once. It was a planned thing to see what they did. They did nothing.

The new 4.3 cannot be locked according to Grand AM. It has to be the same unit used by all. The software is available from Bosch. This will open up the engines hopefully and allow others to build them. It will not matter if the ECU is password protected from Porsche. You would buy an ECU from Bosch and run your own program. The system from Bosch is $ 11,000.00 which includes ECU, Dash, 2 wire harness, and a few other things. The software is on top of this. $ 5000.00 approx.

I'm hoping Grand AM have had enough of Springer and his business blackmailing. That guy should be run out of town. The amount of people he has ripped off is amazing. The stories are hard to listen to, but everyone wanted to race so we all had to bend over and take it. Karma will get him and his millions.

Geoffrey

I just removed a 4.3 out of a DP and am rewiring it for a MoTeC ECU. I can load my own program into it even though it is password protected. I just cannot use that mapping as a base since I can't see it or modify it. I would assume that it would be much the same with the Grand Am spec GT3s, you can load a new program, but not see Porsche's.

m42racer

Geoffrey,

All DP ECU's are open. Or they are supposed to be. They are Grand Am spec'ed. I do not understand why you cannot see anything. Do you have the software program? I know it is sold to anyone for $ 5000.00 approx. Ask Neil. He has it. He has done both LS2 engines and 2 Porsche Grand Am version RSR engines. Maybe the license is from Grand AM and not Bosch.

BW, I think it was because the Porsche runners where going elsewhere to have their engines built, that Porsche opted to have the current lease program.