boqueron

I have been advised to buy a 996 Cup. I own a 2003 GT3 that I use as a track only car without any mod ( exception made of the safety measures and...slicks lately). I was told to shift to a CUP, as I am facing the decision of upgrading my GT3 ( suspension, LSD, etc..) and some friends ( one of them presently racing with a cup ) have told me that it will be less expensive in the long termto have a track specific car (996 CUP) than upgrading my GT3 and maintaining it. (Last season I had to change the clutch of my 14.000 miles GT3 and this year I just had another incidence.)


The reasoning behind is that the Cup car has been build with the track in mind and all components are more track resistant.. AND...The prices of the cups are very interesting..


I have read of the need to rebuild the engine each XXX hours ..

I would like to have some feedback on possible MAINTENANCE COSTS for a NON-Racer. I could eventually enter two short races only this year but most of the time I will be tracking my car with a group of friends. I normally track from 12 to 20 days a year, and each track day I track more or less 2 to 3 hours in total.. This will be a minimum of 24 hours a year to a maximum of 60 hours a year.

I have to insist again that MY MAIN REASON to shift to a cup would be today the economics:

1st.- Upgrading cost of a GT3 vs the all ready and CUP
2nd.- The maintenance costs = parts that brake + rest of the maintenance

Your help will be greatly appreciated...

Nordschleife

Right, a partial reply.

If you are minimising costs and not racing for outright wins, then a 996 Cup with the minimum of Carbon Fibre is a good idea. Sure the CF doors are light, but easily damaged, and expensive.

You will be running iron rotors, this will keep the costs down.

I can tell you 'horror' stories about costs, but that is for profrssional racing, track days and the odd pro-am race will be a small fraction of the cost. So you may only get through a couple of sets of front rotors a season and not many sets of pads. Buy bulk supplies of air scoops for the brakes and front spoilers whilst you are at it.

You do not need the very latest 996 Cup, if you get an older one, you can fit later upgrades if suitable, avoid carbon fibre as I said earlier.

Change oil and oil filters regularly.

Use tear-offs to protect your front windscreen.

Keep a log book and set up worksheets.

You will find the Motec system useful and interesting, learn to use it.

be very careful aboiut using the onboard jacking system, on a slope its easy to bend it.

Have shocks rebuilt rather than replaced, half the time.

Once every two years go through the drive line, replacing consumable parts and consider having the engine, clutch and gearbox stripped and checked. I do not know what this costs in Spain. If you have your car looked after by a race shop, you may be able do do a deal with them which includes looking after the car all season, fixing problems and rebuilding when required.

European labour rates do not compare with US labour rates, ask your friends what they pay. If you do a lot of racing, the costs can go up quite quickly.

If you buy a car with a perfectly documented race and service history, and you keep looking after the car and all the documentation, your car will depreciate very little.

If you use non standard components you may not be able to race in classes you would like to drive in.

R+C

boqueron

THanks ! It´s beginning to look tempting..

Nordschleife

Before you get too excited, I can get through 5 sets of slicks in a testing weekend at Catalunya.

I advise you only to racve if you get paid.

R+C

jrotsaert

I'll chip in... I've owned every cup or RSR since the 964 and currently run a 996 RS with a sequential box and have made the grave mistake of keeping every bill I ever had...

First things first, if you are serious about driving a race car, be aware that's it's going to cost you exponentially more than a street car.

You can't run yourself over a week end so every time you go out you need 1 or 2 guys to nut and bolt the car every time you've driven it - you'd be amazed at how many close calls stay just that but could have resulted in very bad things if you don't have mechanics checking everything every time you come in.

996 cup cars are great and depending on your driving/level of competitiveness you can run with minimum budgets or not... It's VERY easy to go through 2 sets of slicks over a week-end... engines are built for 30 to 45 hours though many have seen 100, just as many have blown before 30 - if you don't belive me, just look at a Carrera Cup/Supercup archive and see how these guys who have full infrastructures still get issues... 40 grand divided by 30 to 100 hrs - say 60 is still over 600 bucks an hour.... gearboxes last longer - completely different on my 996RS where the sequential box needs opening every 10 hours or BAD stuff happens when the dogs get worn... Had one of those this year and it was ugly.

I always timed my drive shafts to 30 hrs. Once I said screw it, it'll be what it'll be and I'll save myself 5 grand. In the Luffield complex at Silverstone my right half shaft broke and I was extremely lucky to not have a write off... if it had happened at Copse I might not be there to talk about it... morale of the story, don't try to save money on timed parts... That's engine, gearbox, half shafts, suspension components.

On discs and pads, if you're racing for the last tenth, you will need to change them every time. If you're racing to the nearest second, a set might do you 1/2 of season including testing.

Count at the very least 2g per week end for crew,transport and fuel, another 2 to 4 for 1 or 2 sets of tyres, you always need a 1g contingency reserve for incidentals - little hits, blocked front radiator, windshield, whatever, ... sometimes you don't need that for a year then you have a 20g hit... count the cost of engine/gearbox rebuild every x hours and you'll quickly see that it's VERY difficult to have a decent race week-end including fees, hotels and the mandatory beers for less than 8g and more often than not it will be north of that...

It's not wise to go and get yourself such a toy if you can't spend 1/2 as much as the cost of the car to play with and maitain it. That actually means that you could buy yourself a new street GT3 every 2 years!

Hope I haven't put you off... I did a season of 8 races in my RS this year and the total cost is ASTRONOMICAL (it was pro events but still).

If you're going to race, it's going to cost a lot, if you're just playing, a tequipment bar with bucket seats and harnesses and a master kill + a fire extingusher and maybe a transmission cooler + floating rotors is the VERY best bang for the buck you'll get... until one day DE rules don't work for you and you'll be miles ahead of a street car everywhere... and then the great descent starts: you're unit of comparison is the cost of a set of slicks...

Wish you luck in your choice! Either way you're very lucky!
JM

jrgordonsenior

A very successful West Coast racer ran 05'-996 Cup this weekend at Buttonwillow in our POC race. In passing I asked him about the oil he used and he stated he used the 5-40 Euro Mobil One. He said it went 60 hours on their RSR before they sold it, and he had roughly 150 hours (14,000 clicks) on his 6-Cup. Pretty impressive....

boqueron

Jrotsaert,

Thanks for the answer. On the "serious " (racing ) use of a Cup, you are describing what I have observed around me..with my friends that race. And that's what frightens me... I already "enjoy" the regular ( each two track days ) visits to the mechanics and the transport to the tracks and back. I also share part of a crew at the track for eventual assistance.. But I am ( and want to be ) far away from the scenario you are describing... Which is the reason why I do not want to race with this car....

The

Nordschleife

to summarise, if you race the **** off the car, it will cost you, big time.

if all you want to do is have a good safe fast time with an amateur race from time to time, then the costs are managable. Some race consumables are cheaper than their street equivalents, rotors for example.

Stay away from expensive stuff like sequential gearboxes, carbon fibre parts.

The GT3 Cup is great if you look after it. If you want to thrash it, it will cost you, but if you thrash a street car it will be unsellable at the end of two years. If you want cheap track time, buy a Caterham or Westfield and go past the GT3s.

R+C

PS you better read this - http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol...cle2503695.ece but be warned, its a humourous take on race cars and street cars, do not take it literally.

analogmike

I found a difference from the above.

> So you may only get through a couple of sets of front rotors a season and not many sets of pads.

Front rotors lasted me about 2-3 races or so on my 2004 cup before the cracking was really bad.
Rears would last a year easily. Pads wore out faster than the rotors and are very expensive (I recommend the black instead of the factory pads, last longer and easier on rotors).

> Buy bulk supplies of air scoops for the brakes and front spoilers whilst you are at it.

I did damage my LF air scoop a few times but my front spoiler was never damaged (I kept
my car on the track most of the time!!!).

Good luck and hope you can find a good car, you won't be sorry!

Jarez Mifkin

Which cars have more carbon fiber?
Are the early 996 cups less expensive to run than the later ones?
Are the 02-04's more expensive to purchase because most of them were updated to run in the US GT3 series or does this have nothing to do with their extra cost, or is the cost of the car based mostly on the hours on the engine? (i.e. the seller trying to get some of their money back from the fresh motor they just installed?)

What about consumables for running costs for an entry level PCA 996 cup racer:
Are you replacing the front brake pads after every event?
Mike said he got 2-3 races on the rotors, Mike was this for the GT3 series, or was this for whenever you ran your car?
Are you buying only one set of slicks for each weekend and using your scrubbed sets for practice or are you buying three new sets a weekend?
Other than fuel, I see those two things as the biggest cost per weekend and as fuel is pretty much the same regardless of what you are running it doesn't factor into the addition to cost equation.
Are there more 'every weekend' costs that I'm not seeing?

TIA!

AndyT

Well one major thing is that the cup cars no matter what year are non-street registerable. So you need special track insurance if you want coverage.

Also you will need additional tools. Nitrogen bottle setup, wand, impact gun, 32mm socket and giant torque wrench. You'll need to get a trailer unless you already have one, enclosed would be choice since you should carry spare tires, parts, etc.

analogmike

> Which cars have more carbon fiber?

All GT3 cups are about the same, maybe early ones did not have CF rear bumper? Later doors are more expensive, probably the rear deck and front bumpers too, as are the mufflers (don't ask how much those are, don't spin into a wall!)

> Are the early 996 cups less expensive to run than the later ones?

Somewhat, due to the above parts, and possible brake part costs.

> Are the 02-04's more expensive to purchase because most of them were updated to run in the US GT3 series or does this have nothing to do with their extra cost, or is the cost of the car based mostly on the hours on the engine? (i.e. the seller trying to get some of their money back from the fresh motor they just installed?)

I think the later ones are more expensive because they are faster and the end of the 996 line. So if you want the best all original car you need an 04 or 05 996 GT3 cup. You can update an earlier car and save money (if someone else paid for the upgrades!). An 03 is easily upgraded to 04 specs.

> What about consumables for running costs for an entry level PCA 996 cup racer: Are you replacing the front brake pads after every event?

Just when needed, they DO work better when thicker, I have a box of 1/2 used pads that are still good for a few races but I went with new pads to get the extra benefit.

> Mike said he got 2-3 races on the rotors, Mike was this for the GT3 series, or was this for whenever you ran your car?

Any wheel to wheel racing or serious pratice would kill the pads and front rotors in no time. If you can add real brake ducting it would really help but not legal in some series.

> Are you buying only one set of slicks for each weekend and using your scrubbed sets for practice or are you buying three new sets a weekend?

I prefer practicing on used tires from the last race then qualifying on new ones myself, saves a lot of $ and keeps me pushing hard. Or keep the last qualifying/race tires with 2 heat cycles for qualifying and this race, and practice on some older tires, works fine too.

Have fun!!!

Jarez Mifkin

[QUOTE=analogmike;4606146]> If you can add real brake ducting it would really help but not legal in some series.[/QUOTE
Thanks for all of the helpful info!

can you add ducting in PCA?

Nordschleife

Mike

Boqueron only wants to race once or twice a season in amateur races, so he will not be killing rotors.

I think you are racing quite seriously for an amateur.

Damage to spoilers and air scoops is much more common in Europe where many tracks are a lot faster than US tracks, don't believe me, try the Nürburgring.

R+C

RSRRacer

Tire costs are the killer. Mike is accurate in his assessment.

There are 2, maybe 3, races I would not have won had I not been on new tires.