Miamirice

nodoors

With the pagid pads there is very good initial bite. Sometimes too much for unprepared drivers like my wife. They dust like crazy, but just get black wheels and that problem is solved.

kennyt

Matt O.

100% agree (except for the black wheels). Solid initial bite, too much for "regular drivers" but just right for those who care, and super dusty. RECOMMEND.

Miamirice

Petza914

I had HPS pads on my wife's 997 and felt the same as you regarding initial bite. This last time I used the yellow box Hawk ceramics and not only is the initial bite better but they dust a lot less too. Not sure if they make them for your Cayenne though. Take the HPS part # and replace the letter in the middle with a Z to see if they do.

kennyt

Petza914

Not exactly. They make ceramics for msny different fitments, including the 997s, which is neither a light truck nor an SUV. Their LTS pad is the one specifically for light trucks and SUVs (thus the name). I run those on my pickup. Must not be a large enough market for the Cayenne front pad size.

Rossi

I have Ferodo DS2500 all around and they are fantastic. Reasonable on dust (less than OEM), not harsh on my rotors at all and the stopping power is better than OEM

phatz

These brake discussions are always interesting

I wish someone that was making a switch from Pagid would do some before and after data collection ...beyond the butt accelerometer

hatchetf15

Miamirice

bgsntth

My favorite SUV pad is the Hawk LTS. I have had them on a GX470, RRS S\C, and a RR HSE. Great initial bite, great feel and very progressive. No noise and minimal dust. I've never used Pagid's on an SUV, but 4/4's and 4/2's were my "go to's" for my tracked Miata and Stoptech equipped WRX - loved them, but they did dust like crazy

Brainz

There definitely needs to be more available facts for consumers to make vehicle brake pad choices. As best I can tell, however, there's generally not any non-marketing information available at the time of pad purchase other than European "90R" certification and DOT "edge codes" which are printed on the pads themselves.

The 90R certification is described here: R90 wiki . In short, pads stamped R90 are supposedly within 15% of factory OEM pads' performance characteristics. I say "supposedly" because I've noticed that the edge codes of different pads stamped R90 can often span a 2 or 3 letter range, which should translate to greater than 15% allowed tolerance. Because of this, I'm personally a little skeptical about R90 as a useful rating of pad performance -- it seems only to indicate that a pad is not complete junk (which I would define as typically EE rated or less). It's also worth noting that high performance track pads probably couldn't be R90 compliant if their performance was sufficiently greater than the OEM pads.

Unless someone knows otherwise (and I'd love to hear it), I think that leaves DOT edge codes as the only useful measure for street pads, although it's arguably still lacking as I'll describe below. If you don't know about DOT edge codes, you probably should read this: DOT Edge Codes Explained . The key information from this article is as follows:

Edge codes are located on the edge or back of every DOT approved brake pad. The two-letter code represents the coefficient of friction (otherwise known as "mu" -- sounds like mew) of the pad at two temperatures: 250 F and 600 F, respectively. Per the table below this paragraph, the letters are typically between E and H, where E represents the lowest coefficient of friction range and H represents the highest friction. And in case there's any doubt, all else equal, a higher mu generates more stopping power for a given amount pedal pressure. Thus, the edge code letters roughly characterize the "bite" that driver feels at "warm" and "moderately hot" braking temperatures typically experienced on the street.

Explanation of D.O.T. Edge Codes Located on all Brake Pads
Edge Code / Coefficient of Friction (aka "mu") @ 250 F and @ 600 F / Comments
EE: 0.25 to 0.35 both temps / 0-25% fade at 600 F possible
FE: 0.25 to 0.35 @ 250 F ; 0.35 to 0.45 @ 600 F / 2% to 44% fade at 600 F possible
FF: 0.35 to 0.45 both temps / 0-22% fade at 600 F possible
GG: 0.45 to 0.55
HH: 0.55 to 0.65

While the above edge codes are useful, they have some limitations:
1) The codes only reflect the range of coefficient of friction, rather than the actual measured amount. Thus a "strong FF" pad might feel/perform comparably to a weak "GG". So while the edge codes point you in the right direction, they aren't exactly precise.
2) The codes only reflect mu at 250 F and 600 F, and, because different pad compounds behave differently at different temperatures, we don't know how the pads perform through the full range of potential brake temperatures that may be experienced. Perhaps most notably, they don't list the mu of the pads at a cold temperature like 50 F or colder, and that's too bad, because for some drivers a pad with noticeably lower friction when cold can be very disconcerting. Also, for performance/track/towing oriented drivers, it'd be nice to know what happens to mu when the temps are even higher like 800 or 1000 F.
3) The codes provide no additional information regarding dusting, noise, or rotor wear -- factors which may also matter to a buyer. That said, for a street/sport pad, noise and rotor wear are likely assumed to be acceptable. Unfortunately, higher friction coefficients tend to be correlated with higher dusting and somewhat reduce rotor life -- that's because the increased friction of the pad compound causes more wearing of the rotors, creating black cast iron dust, which is what most folks seem to complain about on high performance cars.

So as a Cayenne owner interested in braking performance, you should be asking: "What are the edge codes on the OEM pads?" As best I can tell from looking at online images of the latest Porsche branded pads for the 955 Turbo with 350mm rotors, it appears that Porsche pads are the Pagid 4668 compound, and generally have edge codes of "GG," which is a fairly high friction coefficient rating. Note that I found some images of factory pads with "GF" and "FF", but they appear to be older images or rear pads only. This raises the interesting possibility that the OEM pad compound may have changed over time.

For comparison, I'll also list the edge codes (based on online images) for some other pads I looked at:

EBC Yellow: EE
Ferrodo DS2500: FF
Hawk LTS: FF
Stoptech Sport: FF
ATE Ceramic: FG
Pagid (OEM 4668 Compound): GG
ATE: HH

I've run the EBC Yellows and I'm currently running the Stoptech Sports (and prefer their increased bite and lower dust to the Yellows), but I'll acknowledge that my wife thinks my Cayenne doesn't have enough "bite" relative to her Mercedes with GG-rated OEM pads. Conversely, when I drive her car, my first couple stops usually launch everything through the front windshield until I adjust to needing less pressure on the pedal. Having driven the Stoptech Sports now for a couple months, they're an acceptable compromise for me, but I'm thinking of trying an even higher coefficient pad on the front rotors for more bite.

In summary, many folks have been happy with the various pads listed above. But if you're looking for more "bite" you're probably need to stick to OEM, Pagid 4668, or maybe even the ATEs with the HH rated compound (which is an interesting find and appears to have greater than stock bite -- anyone have any experience?).

And if you're looking for a pad that dusts less, you'll have to go on the qualitative experience of others -- just be aware that moving to a pad with different edge codes could have a big impact on braking feel, and will likely require more pedal effort than stock, especially at cold temperatures.

If you're into track stuff, some racing pad manufacturers will give you actual friction coefficient data at all temperatures. While that's useful for your track-focused 911, it's not as useful for a street driven Cayenne as they often don't make pads that fit with those compounds, although some manufactures will custom manufacture a set for you, but it's relatively expensive versus the off the shelf pads.

Hope that helps somebody.

Miamirice