hinchcliffe

Just had an accident with my '05 4.8iS X5 and looking for a change. Why should I look at the Turbo over the Range? Looking at under 80k miles

First is rennlist and i can't find an equivalent Rover forum.

Reliability, looks, etc...

deilenberger

Yes.

And this great forum.

vandal968

+1

c

Dilberto

Rover support forums? Hahahahaa....

ScootCherHienie

It's difficult for me to understand how people seem so blissfully unaware that Land Rover/Range Rover is almost always on the bottom of everybody's reliability reports. It has been like that ever since they branched out into luxury SUVs... 30 years? Someone close, who will remain unidentified, told me they'd just picked up a new Range Rover some years back. I told the person they should have asked me first. And when they asked why, I told the person it was because LR/RR make the least reliable cars on the market and have been doing so for 30 years. Fast forward 6 months and I'm visiting while on vacation and I ask how things are going with the RR and I get "Great! We love this thing." So we went somewhere for something, and while the other person was inside conducting business, I poked around inside the car. I opened the glove box and it was stuffed FULL of service paperwork and the things that were on there were mind boggling... front and rear left side suspension collapsed (I can just see them driving it to the dealer with the driver's side 6 inches lower than the passenger side), replaced tail light assembly and repaint tailgate after tail light assembly fell out while being driven on the freeway, wouldn't start (towed to dealer), upholstery on passenger seat split open, transmission fluid leaking... there were 12 service documents in there with 6000 miles on the car. I didn't let on about the snooping I did in the glove box. That said, the Cayennes are nowhere near as reliable as Acura, Infiniti, Lexus SUVs and it's more expensive to fix than any of those if you use dealer parts or dealer service. If you're looking for a car that's as reliable as an Acura MDX but is more fun to drive than an MDX, your choices are... nothing. If you want a great driving experience you never get tired of, you want the Cayenne. But make sure you can deal with an expensive problem or two during ownership. Example: I wanted to have someone else change all the fluids in the Cayenne (differentials, transfer case, transmission (with filter change), oil, coolant, power steering, brake fluid... everything. Also change spark plugs, replace the alternator. Dealer (northern California) wanted $4500 for that. 2 local independent Porsche specialists who work on a lot of Cayennes wanted $3800. But the place I bought the car has their own service department that only services cars sold by the dealership. They charged $2150 for everything including a rental car. They did not markup their cost on the alternator... dealer price is circa $1800 just for the whole alternator. This other shop initially said they could get one for $1350 but I'd seen the correct Hitachi water-cooled alternator somewhere else for something like $850 and they looked at an alternate distributor they use for parts at times and they had the alternator for $835 and that's what I paid for it. This shop also charges actual hours of labor rather than book hours of labor, it's not uncommon for the book to say the procedure takes 2 hours when any mechanic with any kind of skills could do the job in 1 hour, so this book can allow a shop to charge for 16 hours of labor for each 8 hours of work a mechanic does. It's not right, but that's how it works. You need a shop like that to help you keep the maintenance of these vehicles within some kind of reality so this dealer only sells used luxury and performance cars and the setup their shop specifically so their customers aren't fleeced maintaining the cars they buy from this dealership. I was a little put off by their no dickering policy and the price of the Cayenne being a few hundred over Blue Book, but I saved so much on this major service, I could have cared less that they charged a little over BB for the car.

hinchcliffe

Yes I realize that both will have expenses associated. I have owned and wrenched on 928's for the last 15 years along with my track car. Parts are expensive either way. I have an independent that I use when I'm out of time or it's above my head so no worries.

Just wondering if anyone had made a similar decision and had insight on why?

hinchcliffe

Landys have changed over the years, BMW engines and Jag drivetrains, etc. Not the old Buick V8 with horribly warpable heads. Went through a bunch of Discoveries from the '90s, they definitely had issues...

But with my X5 I learned to change the air ride to Bilstein/HR strut/spring. I could replace a whole front corner in less than 45 minutes now. Took me about 5 hours to do the whole set once I learned all the pieces. So I'm not afraid of that.

But I know in 2003 and the later years have gotten way better. The Cayenne Turbo would be the best sporting feel and.

prosled8

I almost bought an '09 RRSC to replace my '08 CTT which was killed by a deer. I had taken time off work, made travel arrangements and the clown sends me pics of substantial body damage to the car the night before we leave. They subsequently did a quick fix and put it up for sale with no disclosure. Had to pass...

Anyway, the main attraction of the RRSC was a non exploding engine. Way to many V8 Cayennes with engine failures, the 4.2 SC Jag V8 is pretty solid. Due diligence showed the newer 5.0L to be a time bomb requiring a substantial investment to update the cam/chain/timing assembly. So, I like you, was seeking a 2007-2010 RRSC. I also like to use my driver on the jeep roads near me. The CTT did great, I figured the RR had an even greater off road bent to it that would be fun. Sure the air suspension and electronics can be glitchy but the repairs are similar in cost to Cayenne repairs, from what I could discern. I spent some time as a member on rangerovers.net doing research. Not a very friendly place. I was immediately shunned by a moderator when I must have been asking questions I could have found with the search. He was quite antagonistic, I didn't post much.... No support for the L322 Rovers that comes anywhere close to this forum that I could find.

Still, I was ready to take the plunge. The shady dealer and, a lack of suitable alternatives in Denver the weekend we had to shop, put me into something completely different, that also lacks a forum like this LOL...

I would be VERY diligent in choosing a CTT. For as many cars as I have bought and sold, I took a big gamble on the '08 I bought. This forum had me believing the 4.8TT engine was solid. I no longer believe that as I owned a well maintained, low mileage example, that was fixing to go south on me. The CTT is certainly the more impressive machine to drive, solid, poised and super fast, I love them. Risky as heck to own though. The Cayenne comes with the very expensive Porsche engine lottery, pick the wrong one and the engine failure totals your car or doubles your investment. I do not see that issue with the RRSC. The lower installments to keep one running was more attractive to me than the risky mistress Cayenne. Pick your Poison

Dilberto

OP....get the 2008 CTT. The Brain Trust on here is absolutely PRICELESS....

prosled8

Unfortunately that doesn't cover the pain of a $20-25,000 engine repair... or the months of downtime to get that done.

I think there are better years to consider. In hindsight I would have gone with an '06 or a 2010. I think there were problems with the early DFI blocks. Harder than heck to get good info on updates in parts or process from Porsche since they do not consider high dollar engines failing at low miles any concern of theirs.

Petza914

Don't worry, with the Range Rover you'll buy the equivalent of that $25,000 motor in no time, it will just be on an installment plan of $3,000-$4,000 chunks. The good news is that the mileage on the RR will remain low when it's time to resell it because a good bit of your driving miles will be done in dealer loaners instead of your own vehicle.

hinchcliffe

So what is your experience with Rovers, Petza? Did you have a bad one yourself?

It appears all Cayenne v8's are affected by scoring?

Petza914

No personal experience, as I'm smarter than to subject myself to that and a more performance oriented owner than a status oriented one so the Porsche is the better fit for me. One if my good friends has a neighbor with a new one though, well he had one. After it being at his house less than it was at the dealership, he dumped it and traded it on an Alfa Giulia Quattroporte, so he's obviously a glutton for automotive punishment. I don't know anyone with a Range Rover that hasn't had significant issues with theirs though, eventually moving on.

I don't think you can say that all these motors have scoring issues - I'm aware of a handful, most if not all of which are cold weather cars, so when buying mine, bought a FL car with low miles and solid service history. The turbos are less prone to this than the NA cars due to the oil squirter.

hinchcliffe

Just starting my journey in this so the more info the better.

Not looking for a status symbol, I already own a 928S4.... Haha glutton for punishment and all.

For the Cayenne Turbo are the pre face (older than 2007) lift motors better or no? Scoring seems to happen in the early years / low miles of the motors?

Coolant pipes, driveline vibration, and rough tranny shifting what else are things to look for?

I have no problem with early models, rather keep in the 80k mile range though. Can travel to look at trucks across the US. Any models with rear heated seats for the kids, they loved it in the X

Petza914

There's a sticky for both the 955 and 957 series on what to look for if new to the model. My 09 has heated rear seats for the kids and there's also an option for 4-zone climate control that I was trying to find on the right car, but couldn't.