944 NA "EURO" DME BOX
10-06-2002, 11:48 PM
#16
Race Director
"They have a black box that allows you to modify the factory DME air\fuel mixture to remap these values. "
As George said, this box is a piggyback interceptor/signal-massager that sits in between an air-flow sensor (stock AFM or aftermarket MAF) and modifies its output on the way to the DME. However, if the air-flow is out-of-range of the sensor, like high flow-rate that maxes out the stock AFM's flapper door, then the signal-massager won't be able to do anything about it. Or if the sensor puts out a sporadic signal, like large MAF-sensors under idle flow conditions, the signal-massager won't help either (garbage in -> garbage out).
What you want is a sophisticated digital sensor that contains its own 3D air-flow map that generates an air-flow signal to the stock DME computer. This air-flow map is also adjustable by the end user to create a 3D map that accurately matches the configuration of the car.
As George said, this box is a piggyback interceptor/signal-massager that sits in between an air-flow sensor (stock AFM or aftermarket MAF) and modifies its output on the way to the DME. However, if the air-flow is out-of-range of the sensor, like high flow-rate that maxes out the stock AFM's flapper door, then the signal-massager won't be able to do anything about it. Or if the sensor puts out a sporadic signal, like large MAF-sensors under idle flow conditions, the signal-massager won't help either (garbage in -> garbage out).
What you want is a sophisticated digital sensor that contains its own 3D air-flow map that generates an air-flow signal to the stock DME computer. This air-flow map is also adjustable by the end user to create a 3D map that accurately matches the configuration of the car.
10-07-2002, 02:48 AM
#17
Race Director
[quote]Originally posted by Danno:
[QBWhat you want is a sophisticated digital sensor that contains its own 3D air-flow map that generates an air-flow signal to the stock DME computer. This air-flow map is also adjustable by the end user to create a 3D map that accurately matches the configuration of the car.[/QB]<hr></blockquote>
Actually, what I want is a reprogrammable chip with an interface to allow me to do so without having to write code.
The interface would need to be detachable and the interface connection (cable) would have to be inside the box. Oh, and I have to keep the stock AFM.
Of course, only folks racing in a series that allows modifications, but only inside the DME would need this (such as SCCA ITS or 944 Cup or 944 Spec).
[QBWhat you want is a sophisticated digital sensor that contains its own 3D air-flow map that generates an air-flow signal to the stock DME computer. This air-flow map is also adjustable by the end user to create a 3D map that accurately matches the configuration of the car.[/QB]<hr></blockquote>
Actually, what I want is a reprogrammable chip with an interface to allow me to do so without having to write code.
The interface would need to be detachable and the interface connection (cable) would have to be inside the box. Oh, and I have to keep the stock AFM.Of course, only folks racing in a series that allows modifications, but only inside the DME would need this (such as SCCA ITS or 944 Cup or 944 Spec).
10-07-2002, 11:07 AM
#18
Race Director
Geo,
I am not sure about PCA Declaration under 944-cup, but 944-spec rules are as follows:
[quote]
12.5 Computer Engine Management System
The stock computer engine management system must remain. No other engine management system may be added. Aftermarket tuner chips may be used except in the 1988 models.
<hr></blockquote>
You are better at reading rules and understanding all implications, but it looks like we can run any chip we want, but the base "computer" needs to stay the same. It sould like IT has a bit more freedom so you can use your in box plug in. Then again maybe we can use a system we we can remove the chip from the DME box, Put it in a box/socket outside the car ... hook up a computer... reprogam and reinstall in stock DME electronics...
Of course since no system like that exists (that I know of) yet the rules makers may ban this for 944-spec once they get wind of it..
You Never know..
I am not sure about PCA Declaration under 944-cup, but 944-spec rules are as follows:
[quote]
12.5 Computer Engine Management System
The stock computer engine management system must remain. No other engine management system may be added. Aftermarket tuner chips may be used except in the 1988 models.
<hr></blockquote>
You are better at reading rules and understanding all implications, but it looks like we can run any chip we want, but the base "computer" needs to stay the same. It sould like IT has a bit more freedom so you can use your in box plug in. Then again maybe we can use a system we we can remove the chip from the DME box, Put it in a box/socket outside the car ... hook up a computer... reprogam and reinstall in stock DME electronics...
Of course since no system like that exists (that I know of) yet the rules makers may ban this for 944-spec once they get wind of it..
You Never know..
10-07-2002, 11:25 AM
#19
Race Director
[quote]Originally posted by M758:
<strong>Geo,
I am not sure about PCA Declaration under 944-cup, but 944-spec rules are as follows:
You are better at reading rules and understanding all implications, but it looks like we can run any chip we want, but the base "computer" needs to stay the same. It sould like IT has a bit more freedom so you can use your in box plug in. Then again maybe we can use a system we we can remove the chip from the DME box, Put it in a box/socket outside the car ... hook up a computer... reprogam and reinstall in stock DME electronics...
Of course since no system like that exists (that I know of) yet the rules makers may ban this for 944-spec once they get wind of it..
You Never know..</strong><hr></blockquote>
First of all, if the 944 Spec and 944 Cup people allow ITS cars, then they absolutely MUST allow any engine management that fits inside the DME box with the stock connectors. To date, I don't know of any stand-alone unit that fits the bill, but that's only a matter of time, although it may never happen for the 944 since there isn't much engine management development going on for the NA 944.
Second, I'm quite sure the SCCA never intended for what I've described, but the rules are written such that it would be 100% legal (the rules essentially allow any modification inside the original ECU (DME) box.
Lastly, what I would want is some sort of interface that plugs into the system inside the DME box and indeed it would have to be removeable. But, it would allow me to tune the car on the dyno while reprogramming the chip.
<strong>Geo,
I am not sure about PCA Declaration under 944-cup, but 944-spec rules are as follows:
You are better at reading rules and understanding all implications, but it looks like we can run any chip we want, but the base "computer" needs to stay the same. It sould like IT has a bit more freedom so you can use your in box plug in. Then again maybe we can use a system we we can remove the chip from the DME box, Put it in a box/socket outside the car ... hook up a computer... reprogam and reinstall in stock DME electronics...
Of course since no system like that exists (that I know of) yet the rules makers may ban this for 944-spec once they get wind of it..
You Never know..</strong><hr></blockquote>
First of all, if the 944 Spec and 944 Cup people allow ITS cars, then they absolutely MUST allow any engine management that fits inside the DME box with the stock connectors. To date, I don't know of any stand-alone unit that fits the bill, but that's only a matter of time, although it may never happen for the 944 since there isn't much engine management development going on for the NA 944.
Second, I'm quite sure the SCCA never intended for what I've described, but the rules are written such that it would be 100% legal (the rules essentially allow any modification inside the original ECU (DME) box.
Lastly, what I would want is some sort of interface that plugs into the system inside the DME box and indeed it would have to be removeable. But, it would allow me to tune the car on the dyno while reprogramming the chip.
10-07-2002, 08:24 PM
#20
Race Director
[quote]Originally posted by Geo:
<strong>
First of all, if the 944 Spec and 944 Cup people allow ITS cars, then they absolutely MUST allow any engine management that fits inside the DME box with the stock connectors.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Geo, I agree and 944-Cup allows ITS cars.
The 944-Spec is a stand alone series with its own rules allow cars meeting their rules only. So if an ITS or PCA car meets 944-spec rules then fine, but if they do not then they don't race. 944-spec does NOT allow PCA Stock class or ITS cars based on their respective rules only cars that meet 944-spec rules. So we are limited to a different "Chip". Right now the "contents" of the chip appear open.
<strong>
First of all, if the 944 Spec and 944 Cup people allow ITS cars, then they absolutely MUST allow any engine management that fits inside the DME box with the stock connectors.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Geo, I agree and 944-Cup allows ITS cars.
The 944-Spec is a stand alone series with its own rules allow cars meeting their rules only. So if an ITS or PCA car meets 944-spec rules then fine, but if they do not then they don't race. 944-spec does NOT allow PCA Stock class or ITS cars based on their respective rules only cars that meet 944-spec rules. So we are limited to a different "Chip". Right now the "contents" of the chip appear open.
11-15-2002, 02:21 PM
#21
Racer
Are you guys interested in remapping the 944 chip for racing? I may be willing to undertake such a project depending on my time, and what you are looking for. Currently, I have been remapping and programming Porsche chips for the 911 community.
11-15-2002, 08:30 PM
#22
Race Director
[quote]Originally posted by Steve W:
<strong>Are you guys interested in remapping the 944 chip for racing? I may be willing to undertake such a project depending on my time, and what you are looking for. Currently, I have been remapping and programming Porsche chips for the 911 community.</strong><hr></blockquote>
OMG YES!
Basically, all racing NA 944 have a handful of common mods:
Header
Open exhaust
Cone filter (I'll have a true cold air intake)
Underdrive pulleys
Not much else. What we need is a set of maps that aggressively take advantage of higher octane fuels. We could go leaner and more aggressive on the timing.
While the stock AFM prevents getting too close to the edge (comparied with a hotwire MAF), I think there are probably reasonable gains to be had. With the 944 Cup and Spec 944 classes in addition to SCCA ITS, I would think there would be greater market than ever for this.
I know there are some 944 Cup (or is it Spec 944?) cars in SoCal. Also, M758 is in Phoenix and I know he's interested. He might be willing. I know if I were that close to LA I would be.
<strong>Are you guys interested in remapping the 944 chip for racing? I may be willing to undertake such a project depending on my time, and what you are looking for. Currently, I have been remapping and programming Porsche chips for the 911 community.</strong><hr></blockquote>
OMG YES!
Basically, all racing NA 944 have a handful of common mods:
Header
Open exhaust
Cone filter (I'll have a true cold air intake)
Underdrive pulleys
Not much else. What we need is a set of maps that aggressively take advantage of higher octane fuels. We could go leaner and more aggressive on the timing.
While the stock AFM prevents getting too close to the edge (comparied with a hotwire MAF), I think there are probably reasonable gains to be had. With the 944 Cup and Spec 944 classes in addition to SCCA ITS, I would think there would be greater market than ever for this.
I know there are some 944 Cup (or is it Spec 944?) cars in SoCal. Also, M758 is in Phoenix and I know he's interested. He might be willing. I know if I were that close to LA I would be.
