ALS951

Interested in the type of mods that are available for the 944 Turbo.

TIA
AL

Danno

Well, what's your budget?

Bolt-on mods like air-cleaners, chips, boost-controllers, fuel-controlers, MAF-kits, etc. may look attractive because you can buy them one at a time. But $8K later, you have a 350-400rwhp car that's maxed out.

Better to look at $10-12K for a fully-built motor that has lightweight rods, pistons, crank & flywheel. You get a replacement engine management system (stock DME/KLR combo sucks). Now you're looking at 450-600rwhp.

David Floyd

I agree with Danno, I have all of the bolt on goodies( which I was able to buy used at about half the cost of new )you get used to the power increase very quickly and want more power.

So I am now saving up to buy a Scott Gomes engine, now we are talking real power.

Buy a few bolt on's if you have to, but I like Danno recommend the full built engine, you will much happier in the end.

ALS951

Hey guys,

So I guess the route to go is to get a engine with all the mods. Any suggestions?

TIA

Al 87 951

David Floyd

My HP fund will be going to Scott Gomes at Under Pressure Performance www.BodywksIn@aol.com

Here are a few of the many others www.huntleyracing.com www.speedforceracing.com www.technodyneracing.com

Talk to them all and see what you think,as for me Scott is the way to go.

David Floyd

The above is Scott's email so leave off the www

Macabre

I think you can get 350rwhp for a lot less than $8k..

350rwhp is a well tuned K27/8 ($800-900), MAF (~$1000), boost controller ($50-$300), 3" turbo-back exhaust (~$1000 or less), and perhaps extrude-honing the intake manifold (~$400?). After that you need to start upgrading the fuel system, so it gets a bit more expensive, but you can easily get 400rwhp without opening up the motor. If you buy these components used it can be a lot less. Here's 336rwhp with a K27/6: http://www.huntleyracing.com/dyno2/m...plusmodcar.jpg

Unless you're looking for HUGE numbers, I don't think you need to look into a "built" motor, but that's just my opinion. However, if you want a 600hp motor, that's what you have to do.

I don't see how you're going to get a turbocharger, crank, rods, pistons, flywheel, head work, exhaust system, fuel system upgrades, engine management and dyno tuning time (a necessity at this point) for only $10-12k. Even assuming you can do the motor rebuild yourself.. If the jump from "bolt-on" to "complete rebuild" was only a couple thousand, I would think more people would go that route..

David Floyd

My suggestion is to talk to each of the tuners and make a choice from that.

I have about 5K in bolt-ons,a lot of them were bought used, and just a warning the power becomes ho-hum after a short period of time. IMHO

My list of mods

Huntley stage 4 MAF
stage 2 Garrett ballbearing turbo
adj fuel pressure reg
52lb injectors
test pipe and Bullit muffler
Noligy coil and wires
ported polished and o-ringed head
monster blowoff valve
stainless intercooler pipes
boost controller, can run 20psi no problems
that should be about all of them

Don't get me wrong the car is fast just not scary fast

David Floyd

And Deltagate wastegate

I knew I would forget something

Danno

Yes, so you can get 350rwhp for less than $8K(not by much), but that's going to be the MAX and you're at the end of the road. Further power upgrades will require you to throw out the bolt-on upgrades you spent so much money on. Out goes the MAF, custom chips, ARC2, FPR, etc... not to mention the time spent installing and tuning. How many times do you want to undo and redo your work?

I guess if you are COMPLETELY sure that you will NEVER want more than 350rwhp, then the bolt-on MAF, chips, FPR route is fine for the money and power.

Scott's the MAN! His motto is something like "build it right, build it once". Remember, you want to distinguish between people who HAVE gone the bolt-on route and maxed it out from those who says the "shoulds". David and I DO have 350rwhp and we're going to be tearing everything apart to get more.

One of Scott's clients, Rodney built a stock bottom-end car (stock rods, crank, piston, head, cam, etc.) and got 400rwhp out of it. Basically a new fuel and engine-management system. That coincidentally, closely matches the 412rwhp that John & Huntley got out of a FULLY-BUILT 2.8L motor with the full Huntley works (crank, rods, pistons, cam, heads, etc). With that kind of effort and money ($15K+), you're looking at 600hp+ from a Scott Gomes motor.

I've posted a dyno-chart comparison between one of Scott's old engines versus a Ferrari F-40. Scott's engine ended being about 10% more efficient. http://members.rennlist.org/951_racerx

Power and speed is a drug, if you're going to be upgrading your car, you will NEVER stop. Check out Doug's go-fast crack-pipe stories at http://www.nsxfiles.com/stories.htm

turbinek

Since it is about you folks talked about MAF - is there anyone that has experience with Lindsey racing electronic MAF?

fast951

If you have a good solid engine, there is no need to take it apart in order to make serious HP.
I have a 2.5L 951 that is making around 430rwhp with stock internals.
Well sized turbo, MAF system with nicely tuned chips, larger injectors, good boost control, test pipe, high octane gas and you are there. Making HP without reliability is useless. Few things can be done to make it live....
Email me directly and I can discuss the details. No need to spend more than $3000-3500 to make reliable HP.
I use my car mainly on the track with great reliability.

pig4bill

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by David Floyd:
<strong>So I am now saving up to buy a Scott Gomes engine, now we are talking real power.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">How much does a Scott Gomes motor run?

fusionsport

I agree with the above- I currently have a customer fighting the budget battle debating between the bolt-ons and piggyback and stop-gap devices for the motor I am buildinghim- but he is likely to end up with a DTA engine management sytem and heres why-
A)cost by the time you do this-
-350rwhp is a well tuned K27/8 ($800-900), MAF (~$1000), boost controller ($50-$300), 3" turbo-back exhaust (~$1000 or less), and perhaps extrude-honing the intake manifold (~$400?).
You could have spent this-
1500 on DTA ecu
900(full traction control, launch control, and etc) harness that drops onto 944 na/turbo cars- I have done a few and know what they need and where they need it
250.00 on new senders- if you need them
new turbo

No boost controllers, no gimmicks, just proper engine management with tuneable traction control
with wet/dry modes and luanch control, data logging(basic but its there) etc etc- this will then bolt right onto you new killer motor and with a little re-mapping you are there. and just to compare numbers that is about the price of the MAF and boost controller and enrichment gadgets the bolt on guys are throwing at thier cars.

Now if you want to talk a bit more money lets talk MOTEC, with the M4 running at just about 2k, a harness built by Motec to plug into your car about 750-900 and all the support and knowledge of MOTEC- and if you want logging- add another 750 or so and you get the M48 which adds data logging and a few other nice features.

As far as engine building theres a lot of hooey going on right now out in the 944 world- the 44 engine is robust and covers peoples mistakes and stupidity well- but heres a few things I have discovered-
-if you overbore you need to sleeve the block- period

-newest theory behind #2 bearing failure is tied to the intake flowing too much air to 2 causing a lean condition, which beats the bearing right off the crank- if you go for big numbers have CMW flow your intake- they cut it up and match the numbers across the board, and it is working

-crossdrilled and lightened/knife-edged cranks are wonderful, but buy one from someone who can tell if it is straight or not

- the head is a key to big numbers- proper flow work will require material to be welded in and then shaped- if your builder doesnt know this...well ask around

-stock rods are next to worthless- get pauter or carrillo, or titanium- its your budget- another word here- I hear people saying stock bottom end is fine, but why on earth would you risk it? I mean the difference is a 800-1000 buck rod set vs an 8000+ rebuild it is just plain stupidity to not put quality rods in a motor expected to produce major power levels

- balance shaft elimination is worthwhile, but again someone that has an idea about what they are doing should do it

- intercooler upgrades are not common enough, with people tooo focused on exhaust and turbo size- both are easy- and have been discussed many many times- but the intercooler is where your car can make major power gains- I highly suggest a water to air i/c if you are doing track duty, or a large front mount( the nose will need to be modified but it can be done without too much pain)

-JE and Wiseco make good pistons- coat them and they are perfect

- Performance Coatings make power in a turbo motor- use a thermal barrier coating on the combustion chambers and piston tops, dry-film lubricant on piston sides, cam tappets, cam lobes, all engine bearings, wrispins- basically anything that moves, use a oil-shed coating on the piston baottoms, crank counterwieghts, rod beams, basically anywhere you dont want oil to stick(cant believe the difference in cooling this makes)

- have C&R radiator in Indy make you a nice alloy radiator

thats the short list but you get the idea-
feel free to contact me if you have any questions

David Floyd

Somebody dug up an oldie.

good advice fusionsport

Thanks for the new info on the #2 bearing problem