Turbodyne Turbopac Electric Air Charger
06-29-2003, 03:21 PM
#1
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Turbodyne Turbopac Electric Air Charger
Curious if anyone has considered one of these for their Porsche. It is an electric powered air charger. From my quick research I have already come across the disadvantages/advantages of an electric powered charger and the consensus is that this particular charger has promise.
Specificly I wonder if it would work in a late 80s model 911.
I have no idea how much they cost or where one could be found.
<a href="http://www.turbodyne.com/" target="_blank">http://www.turbodyne.com/</a>
Specificly I wonder if it would work in a late 80s model 911.
I have no idea how much they cost or where one could be found.
<a href="http://www.turbodyne.com/" target="_blank">http://www.turbodyne.com/</a>
06-29-2003, 06:23 PM
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Waiting for a reply from Grand Technologies who is/was selling the Superpac Supercharger (Turbodyne Turbopac). More information to follow.. here are responses to questions from a previous inquiry by a Miata owner in Feb 1997:
******** begin copied text ***********
David Miller from Grand Technologies called me today and answered the questions I had about the Superpac and I am sending them to the list like I said I would. Here are the questions and answers.
1. Do we need a heavier alternator? No, the one you have is fine. The system draws 90amps to spool up to 30,000 RPM in 0.03 sec and then draws 60amps while it is running.
2. How does the controller work? It is a micro switch that you can put set to come on at full throttle or at the flip of a switch. Basically you can set it to make boost whenever you need it.
3. Do we need inline or high capacity fuel pumps? No, the stock fuel pumps will provide enough fuel since it is running 4psig max boost.
4. Will the unit have a problem with modified ECU's? No, the system is kind of generic in that there are only three different systems for all the types of vehicles. The unit does not directly interact with the ECU.
5. How is the compressor mounted and what comes with the kit? The kit comes with the compressor and housing, microelectronic controller, micro switch, flexible tubing, and mounting hardware. Basically it is up to where to mount it and how to run the plumbing.
6. Will there be upgrades? Yes, but not for quite a while. There will be provisions for trading up, but they are not sure exactly how that will work yet. The more boost that the system creates, the more specialized the system has to be for each different car. Larger units that make more boost are probable, but not sure about running higher voltages...could be damaging.
7. What does the warranty cover? Everything that comes with the unit. They have had a unit running for a month or more non-stop and haven't had any problems yet. The warranty is for 500,000 miles.
8. Will I really see 30% increase in HP (40.5 HP) from only 4psig? Yes, it is likely with the small 2.0L engines. With the larger engines (350 CUI), they will see closer to 20% or 25%. THey have tested them and this is what they came up with.
9. Can we get a group discount? Yes, we can. I don't kow how much yet. I am supposed to tell him how many people want in and he can then give me a solid number on the discount per unit. When he tells me, we can decide if its worth it.
10. Is an intercooler a good idea since there is at least a 38 F increase in temperature due to compression (38.479 F increase calculated from adiabatic (isentropic), polytropic compression of air assuming perfect gas behavior with gamma=1.4 at STP to 4psig)? Not sure. Doesn't know if any tests that have dealt with that. The friction in the intercooler may lower the pressure such that any increase in performance due to a cooler charge is negated by lower pressures since we are starting of with 4psig.
11. Are units available right now? Yes, you can get then now and the model we need is #1500. The kits are (before potential group discount) $1580.00 and about $18.00 to ship ground from Cali. to Fla.
********* end copied text ******************
******** begin copied text ***********
David Miller from Grand Technologies called me today and answered the questions I had about the Superpac and I am sending them to the list like I said I would. Here are the questions and answers.
1. Do we need a heavier alternator? No, the one you have is fine. The system draws 90amps to spool up to 30,000 RPM in 0.03 sec and then draws 60amps while it is running.
2. How does the controller work? It is a micro switch that you can put set to come on at full throttle or at the flip of a switch. Basically you can set it to make boost whenever you need it.
3. Do we need inline or high capacity fuel pumps? No, the stock fuel pumps will provide enough fuel since it is running 4psig max boost.
4. Will the unit have a problem with modified ECU's? No, the system is kind of generic in that there are only three different systems for all the types of vehicles. The unit does not directly interact with the ECU.
5. How is the compressor mounted and what comes with the kit? The kit comes with the compressor and housing, microelectronic controller, micro switch, flexible tubing, and mounting hardware. Basically it is up to where to mount it and how to run the plumbing.
6. Will there be upgrades? Yes, but not for quite a while. There will be provisions for trading up, but they are not sure exactly how that will work yet. The more boost that the system creates, the more specialized the system has to be for each different car. Larger units that make more boost are probable, but not sure about running higher voltages...could be damaging.
7. What does the warranty cover? Everything that comes with the unit. They have had a unit running for a month or more non-stop and haven't had any problems yet. The warranty is for 500,000 miles.
8. Will I really see 30% increase in HP (40.5 HP) from only 4psig? Yes, it is likely with the small 2.0L engines. With the larger engines (350 CUI), they will see closer to 20% or 25%. THey have tested them and this is what they came up with.
9. Can we get a group discount? Yes, we can. I don't kow how much yet. I am supposed to tell him how many people want in and he can then give me a solid number on the discount per unit. When he tells me, we can decide if its worth it.
10. Is an intercooler a good idea since there is at least a 38 F increase in temperature due to compression (38.479 F increase calculated from adiabatic (isentropic), polytropic compression of air assuming perfect gas behavior with gamma=1.4 at STP to 4psig)? Not sure. Doesn't know if any tests that have dealt with that. The friction in the intercooler may lower the pressure such that any increase in performance due to a cooler charge is negated by lower pressures since we are starting of with 4psig.
11. Are units available right now? Yes, you can get then now and the model we need is #1500. The kits are (before potential group discount) $1580.00 and about $18.00 to ship ground from Cali. to Fla.
********* end copied text ******************
06-29-2003, 06:43 PM
#3
A 60 amp 12 volt (720w.) electric motor is about 1 hp. That will not produce significant boost. It might produce a couple of HP at low rpm but at higher rpm it will just restrict airflow.
06-30-2003, 11:45 AM
#5
Burning Brakes
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Mark.Budgen:
<strong>Just a reference my 993 TPC supercharger takes about 40hp from the crank to produce 6-8lb boost at red line.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Agree, at low engine speed it draws something like 5 HP-s at 5lb boost.
<img src="http://www.automotive.eaton.com/images/products/M90power.gif" alt=" - " />
Still, I believe that Elecrtic "spooler" can be useful in elliminating turbo lag. This lag is really issue with turbo engines and pre-spooling turbos should be good idea.
<strong>Just a reference my 993 TPC supercharger takes about 40hp from the crank to produce 6-8lb boost at red line.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Agree, at low engine speed it draws something like 5 HP-s at 5lb boost.
<img src="http://www.automotive.eaton.com/images/products/M90power.gif" alt=" - " />
Still, I believe that Elecrtic "spooler" can be useful in elliminating turbo lag. This lag is really issue with turbo engines and pre-spooling turbos should be good idea.
06-30-2003, 05:13 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
Check out the eRAM. It is is a lower cost answer to the question. The eRAM is a 1psi electric supercharger and it has a patented axial flow design. On several 911s, and the actual dyno sheets are posted, we got 10hp to the rear wheels!! (on two 84 911 3.2L engines) The eRAM runs at 50amps and has been made for over 5 years now. Anyone that knows me and has been to the dyno with me, knows that this device works and works well , especially at the price point. we used it on our speedvision GT 928 for 5 years with no issues, and many dyno runs proving its perfomance.
The main difference between axial flow and centrifugal, is that axial flow compressors are great at making flow, but generally poor at pressure (1psi is well within its range) Centrifugal compressors are poor with flow and great with pressure. if you dont match the flow of an engine, there will be restrictions and performance losses at higher rpm and power output requirements. So, this is why the turbodyne has 3psi rated at 200cfm (ie 1.8 liter engine at 6000rpm) and 1psi rated at 300cfm (2.8liter engine) at a cost of $1200 or so, the eRAM at $300 is then a bargan. for us, and our race car, it gave us gains equal to mods costing 4x the price (ie headers, race exhaust, cams, fuel regs, etc)
Let me know if you want more information. If you are local ,Ill meet you at a dyno in the san jose area!!
mark
<a href="http://www.electricsupercharger.com" target="_blank">www.electricsupercharger.com</a>
The main difference between axial flow and centrifugal, is that axial flow compressors are great at making flow, but generally poor at pressure (1psi is well within its range) Centrifugal compressors are poor with flow and great with pressure. if you dont match the flow of an engine, there will be restrictions and performance losses at higher rpm and power output requirements. So, this is why the turbodyne has 3psi rated at 200cfm (ie 1.8 liter engine at 6000rpm) and 1psi rated at 300cfm (2.8liter engine) at a cost of $1200 or so, the eRAM at $300 is then a bargan. for us, and our race car, it gave us gains equal to mods costing 4x the price (ie headers, race exhaust, cams, fuel regs, etc)
Let me know if you want more information. If you are local ,Ill meet you at a dyno in the san jose area!!
mark
<a href="http://www.electricsupercharger.com" target="_blank">www.electricsupercharger.com</a>
1500, buy, compressor, controller, dyno, electric, hoe, information, micro, microelectronic, switch, turbo, turbodyne, turbopac, works
