adrial

Mitchell, Yeah...I'd take that as a no. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

There may be somebody that has...

Try posting to the 996 forum, you're more likely to get a response there. If you say you've done a few track events in the vette, that should keep the flaming to a minimum!

FYI Imagineauto (Porsche PHD) has a dyno chart showing a ~20hp and ~20 lb/ft torque gain with a chip and intake on the 996 board. That'll get you part way to the boost you're looking for. The horsepower and torque increases are pretty much across the rev range, not just near redline. I was very impressed. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

Carlos

Isn't it nice to know that a track day can not only keep you off the "*****" list but prevent flaming as well. Too bad that's not something that can be packaged & sold.

mark kibort

NOS is just cold air, for all practical purposes. there is no "metalurgy" issues with using NOS. (unless where it is ported, it doesnt like to get cold) the Nitrogen part of the mixture is really great for "cusioning" the expanding ignited charge of air, NOS and fuel. the temps are actually reduced do to the rapid expansion and vaporization of the NOS when injected to an engine. Generally, the NOS and fuel are atomized at the port, for a very good and controlled mixture. Increasing the mass flow in this way reduces some of the issues with supercharging and turbo supercharging as far as heat. because the intake charge temps is reduced, there is sometimes no need to adjust timing for small 50-75hp shots of NOS and fuel.

I used a 50 shot of NOS on and off the race track for a couple of years, with great luck and no increased wear or issues. think of the NOS solution as increasing the displacement of your engine for brief periods, say , 7-15 seconds at a time. On a road course, we got 10 laps of 50hp shots all on the power needed straights. We used a left foot mounted floor button that made sure we never were able to hit the juice, unless the clutch was out!!

there are other ways to get 50hp, but this is the cheapest way. actually, less heat than if you were to do some type of radical intake, head mod to give you 50 more hp. this advantage of NOS is due to the cooling and nitrogen cushioning effect.
Remember, the air you breathe and NOS are very close to the same propotions of nitrogen and o2. the main difference is a slight increase in the proportion of O2 and no other gasses.

mk

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Richard:
<strong>Mitchell,

For what it is worth I looked into using N2O on my 993 and abandoned the idea due to real issues with excess heat and also an apparent problem with the metalurgy. Nitrogen, it seems, is not a fan of the metal in the Porsche heads.

The heat problem was not one I was prepared to test in even the short term - the tests I did were worrying as it was, with almost uncontrolled heat being generated and not dissipated. The metalurgy is only a theory, but I am told by some pretty serious tuners that lifespan is not good.

For water-cooled heads in the 996 the heat may not be so bad, but then again that is why you asked. The guys that did the experiment for me would not commit, but did say that is MAY not be so bad. As to metalurgy, this is the same issue as with the 993.

I suggest you go to a tuner that knows Porsches backwards but is prepared to get out of the sandpit and do something different. My guys have done it all, supercharging, super-and-turbo charging, Chevy V8 conversion etc etc. You need someone outside the "if it is not Poreche parts, do not do it" mentality if you really want to experiment and find the results you want. But, do not forget, these cars ARE different and you will have to live with what you do to it. I am super happy with the Supercharging route, but then again that's me.

Best of luck and see some experts. (Personally, I would chip it and leave it at that...)

cheers</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">

mark kibort

You need to find some other "experts" if this is what they are telling you. NOS and fuel is no different than burngin more air and fuel mass via any other mods that increase mass flow . (ie headers, intake , chip, etc) all of these mods help bring more air mass into the engine combustion chambers. the easyway, but a way that requires filling a bottle and installing a system, is NOS. NOS, if used properly, and the fuel air ratios are matched of your engine, is an extremely safe way to increase HP by 50hp or so. of course, 100hp and higher, require the same engine changes as would be needed on a high boost turbo or turbosupercharging configuration.

people always tent to view NOS as NitroMethane. its not. Its only more air and fuel. if your "metalurgy" has a problem with Nitrogen, then you better change to solid fuel and liquid O2. the air you breathe has more Nitrogen than NOS.

dispelling wives husband racer tales,

MK

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Richard:
<strong>Mitchell,

Nitrogen, it seems, is not a fan of the metal in the Porsche heads.

The heat problem was not one I was prepared to test in even the short term - the tests I did were worrying as it was, with almost uncontrolled heat being generated and not dissipated. The metalurgy is only a theory, but I am told by some pretty serious tuners that lifespan is not good.

I suggest you go to a tuner that knows Porsches backwards but is prepared to get out of the sandpit and do something different. My guys have done it all, supercharging, super-and-turbo charging, Chevy V8 conversion etc etc.
cheers</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">

adrial

Carlos,

The package is $99.99, anybody want one??

I have to agree with Mark...

The real problem with N20 is tuning. If you tune it right...the engine will last. If you tune it wrong...**BOOM**. The same goes for any other modification that results in a large hp/torque increase, such as Turbo/SC.

There are so many people doing it, and doing it completely wrong that N20 got a bad rap. If its tuned correctly, it should work great!

The main reason I dont like it is that it needs to be refilled....

MitchellDavidson

Jesus! I find it amazing that for all the 996's out there, nobody has Nitrous installed, wow!

mark kibort

Thats because, the 996 is just too darn fast already!!!!!

MK
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by MitchellDavidson:
<strong>Jesus! I find it amazing that for all the 996's out there, nobody has Nitrous installed, wow!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">

mark kibort

Carlos, your right. I think most of the "booms" have been with guys that just think that 200hp NOS is fine for their stock engine, and they just crumble. as long as the fuel ratios are in the 12-13:1 range, and you are only talking about 50hp or so, there really is no problem by using NOS. get the hP up, or get a stoik. ratio of fuel air (ie right around 15:1) you can burn valves. too lean is ok, it will just run rough, and actually EGT and CHT s are actually low.

refilling is a pain, but i had two bottles i used. this was great for around town punches, but really cool for road racing. problem was, as you said, the refil. each 10 lap road race was 40bucks!!. but, i was using pump gas too, so it wasnt that bad ( ever pay for a full tank of 100 octane at the track?)
Mk

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by adrial:
<strong>Carlos,

The package is $99.99, anybody want one??

I have to agree with Mark...

The real problem with N20 is tuning. If you tune it right...the engine will last. If you tune it wrong...**BOOM**. The same goes for any other modification that results in a large hp/torque increase, such as Turbo/SC.

There are so many people doing it, and doing it completely wrong that N20 got a bad rap. If its tuned correctly, it should work great!

The main reason I dont like it is that it needs to be refilled....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">

MitchellDavidson

I'm getting a dry kit installed this week. Here's to being the first.

mark kibort

I would suggest a wet system as that assures that you have the proper mixture and are not trusting the complex MAF system to increase fuel flow proportionately to the increased air mass flow (ie NOS). wet nosiles are NOS and fuel ported in or around the throttle body, and perfectly atomize the fuel and air as it enters the intake system. this is a great way for 50-75hp. more than that, it may be better to do individual porting of NOS and fuel. or a complex dry system that has utter control of injector duration when the button is hit.

Let us know how it works out. dyno work should be done to make sure your mixture is correct. err on the rich side!!

Mk

MJR911

Mark,
For the smaller shots, what about simply placing the nozzle in front of the airbox? Is that what you mean or would this be too stressful on the engine management?

Mitch

mark kibort

You are now depending on the MAF sensor to sense the increased air flow mass through it. the NOS shot is so cold, that the sensor may not be calibrated to sense and adjust fuel flow as the mass flow hits the hot wire sensor. Plus, having differences in the external temp sensor and barametric sensors, may confuse the computer to where it goes to a default , limp home fuel map.

dont know, but a fuel and NOS ported device (NOS wet nosile system) may be more dependable and do a better job.

Mk

stanger87lx

I have run nitrous on both of my Mustangs and here is some advice that I can bring over to the Porsches.

First, as was said, run a wet shot.
You want to place the jet about 6 to 8 inches away from the throttle body.
As a rule, pull 2 degrees of timing for every 50hp.
Run 1 step colder plugs for every 50hp.
Always run copper plugs--no platinum.
Use Premium gas.
Install a WOT (Wide Open Throttle) switch.
Install a RPM activated window switch and have it turn on at 3000 RPMs and turn off about 300 RPM before your revlimiter.
Install a fuel pressure saftey switch
Be sure you pump can handle the load and posibly get an AFPR (Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator) becuase a wet kit can make the FP drop sometimes.

After it is installed, Jet it for the smallest amount, probaly a 35 shot. Find an empty stretch of road and in second gear at WOT spray above 3000 RPM's. Hold the spray for about 10 seconds as long as you do not hear any pinging or knocking. Pull over and check your plugs for any signs of detonation. Try again and spray for about 20 seconds. Check the plugs again.

After that I would recomend a dynotune to monitor your A/F ratio. On juiced mustangs I would run about a 12:1 ratio. Im not sure what is optimum on a Porsche.

George 911-V8

MD keep us posted on the outcome of the giggle gas, I'm sure you will have some fun with it I know I do remember spray the house down.

George

johnfm

Mark
you said
"NOS is just cold air, for all practical purposes. there is no "metalurgy" issues with using NOS. (unless where it is ported, it doesnt like to get cold) the Nitrogen part of the mixture is really great for "cusioning" the expanding ignited charge of air, NOS and fuel. the temps are actually reduced do to the rapid expansion and vaporization of the NOS when injected to an engine


you are obviously referring to intake charge temps, not engine head temps. At the end of the day, if your engine is making 50 HP more (via any tuning route), the heads will get hotter - more HP = more heat.


BTW, the nitrous Oxide is a compound, not a mixture of nitrogen and oxygen. Where is all this 'cushioning' nitrogen gas. I expect it isn't freed until the reduction of the n2O.