GVA-SFO

A big surprise this afternoon, I had a car flashback :
..My first Porsche was right here in the front of me !
Same model, same color, same wheels, but I had no open roof, and my interior was dark blue ! Still, it made me feel that it was mine, ..34 years ago !
Great souvenir



Btw, I know it was impossible, as mine, about a year after buying another one, the same color, but a Carrera 3.2 Cab, I sold my SC it to RS Tuning (in Geneva), and then it was completely modified into a race car, ..but was totaled during its very first outing !
So, my SC simply cannot be here anymore !

GVA-SFO

To be back on the topic :
Yes, today, ..Panamera on the golf course, with no golf clubs !
I think I had the most dirty car of all the place.
I even had a “hey, your car is Gray ?” (My answer was: “Nope, it is black !”)
May be I’m trying too hard to save the Californian water !!

GVA-SFO

Seen today at Werks Reunion, two cars that let me think about my country :

I love this one, but asking the owner, ..this was a remake, ..not an original (plate frame !)




And : A “Cheap Porsche”, made in Switzerland, the real name was “Enzmann” (model 506), that was built (also) using VW components.
..An old story that we all know, that time, from Austria, right ?

(Btw, I heard that Enzmann restarted the manufacturing of this body, so you can still buy a kit these days !)



Very funny : the front plate (Swiss “NW”, or the Canton of Nidwalden ! Yes, next to Lucerne, even touching the lake of Lucerne) are mounted underneath the front, and are on hinges. So, when cops would look at it, (stand still) everything is perfect, but when speeding, the plate is going “horizontal” under the car, thanks the air pressure, and any photo taken on the front by fixed radars system (very common in Switzerland) will not show …any plate numbers !!!!!



Leaving the Grass of Werks Reunion, I took this photo this evening.
But, to me, it looks like a photo taken 60 years ago ! (But, these were "left over" in the Corral parking !!)




Going back home, in the bumper to bumper traffic of Carmel Valley Road, I love this photo of my mirror :


Yes, if you look accurately : ..Two (!!!) of them. (Can only see the mirror (of the 2nd one) in the mirror.)


For me, exotic cars are “Prêt à Porter”, but these ones are definitively “Haute Couture” !!

Panaseeya

How's the weather down there? Smoke?

GVA-SFO

no, no smoke at all.
Thanks to the firefighters

mdosu

Been following this thread recently. An amazing journal of ownership. Soon, I'll be joining you with a '14 S E-Hybrid. Let's get together and kick tires when that happens.

GVA-SFO

@Mdosu : I'm very curious : Why you do not buy a gasoline Panamera, and get a used Leaf to be "electric" when needed !
(I.e.: when the leaf is charging, ..if car is needed, you can use the Panamera !
And when doing long trips, ..you do not carry with you the extra weight (batteries, elect. motors, etc..) that are not used !)
As you can see, I'm not (yet) personally convinced that "hybrid" is a solution for such a type of car (GT), this, when I'm fully convinced that electric cars is the future (efficiency AND zero emission).

In my case: still Panamera but not Tesla, as I still feel that batteries refills still take way too much time, and when we do "GT", just love to have the freedom to be able to change itineraries on the fly, according to mood, climate, and etc.., thus been really not electrically compatible with the must of having a solid plan that MUST have a charger in our path at a given mile point !
So, I would foresee (in my case) a smaller electric car, to fill the need of running the errands (i.e.: in town where no emission is a great plus to local) !

mdosu

^ I didn't give you the background of my purpose for the car.

I currently own a 2008 M3 and a 2012 X5d. The X5d will stay and be the family hauler and road trip car. The M3 will be replaced with a PSEH. Living in SF proper, I only have a 1 car garage, and there's no way I can bit physically and fiscally buy, use and maintain 3 cars. I barely drive the M3 at all as it's for daily commuting between SF and SFO (and I don't drive it at all on the wekeends), so I'm not getting the max benefit of a high performance car.

I'm broached the topic with my wife of owning just an EV for daily commuting, but then, it'll be hard to justify when I'll actually drive the M3.

I've been toiling the idea of selling the M3 for a while. I'm bored of it as a DD car. Compounding the issue, it's also very hard to justify selling it as IMO it's also the best value performance car today. You can't get this much performance (416 HP, 3600 lbs) for it's current value ($30k), without having to pay $50k+ for the next level up (Z06, Viper, 997 GT3, any P-car GTS etc. I also need back seats to shuttle my kid's child seat).

So with the PSEH, it'll be a different type of upgrade, less of a performance upgrade but more on tech, cool factor and such. The performance will be on par with a 330 HP 3800 lbs car, which is acceptable to me. If I bought a gasoline Panny S, performance-wise, it'll seem like a downgrade from my M3 with extra cost out of pocket, as the M3 is in the sweet spot of the depreciation curve right now (likely will only eat $2k of depreciation in the next 1.5 years). I justify the SEH's deficit on performance with the cool factor I get back for having a sporty hybrid. (does any of this make sense? lol).

Many people would probably tell me that I'm stupid for selling a mechanically sound M3 for a large heavy GT hybrid...If you were to ask me this question 10 years ago, I would have said I had lost my mind!

Here's my deliberation on the above thought:
https://rennlist.com/forums/panamera...dd-i-know.html

GVA-SFO

OK, fully understand the 2 cars ways. This was our way for 30 years, i.e.: SUV + 911
I see : Evo 8, and than M3 : Very interesting
Imo, the problem is NOT the SUV, and in my side, was not the 911.
..The problem is going to be the Panamera.
This car is such a great tourer, you simply cannot “go” without it.
But, in my case (I'm very curious to follow your case), I was missing the "wild horse" !
And, a 911, that is in my perception, a perfect compromise sport car (had the chance to have for 30 years SUV + 911), would simply not have a slot anymore in my side, so, this made me going to an additional old (& cheap) Boxster S.
(No need to go for a sport car that would have 2 jump seats, and ..the engine at the wrong place. Imo, for real fun : a car must have the engine in the right place.
Fyi, the story of this Boxster is here :
https://rennlist.com/forums/boxster-...l#post11020813

Or, ..back in a wild (driver) seat ! ..That end up to gave me back the great "no roof and stick shift" feeling that I was missing.
So, ..because of the Panamera, I becomes a two cars guy, when, before that, I was perfectly happy with one only, OK, ..it was a compromise !

I’m curious, but, time will tell!

GVA-SFO

I was thinking that after the departure of F. Piësch and the arrival of Matthias Müller at the head of the VW group, the new lineup models of Porsche would become again “number 1” in the group sport cars (not counting exotics from Lambo) with engines and power that would “fit” again the name of the brand, but, here are some example of what I can observe for 2017 :

New model at Audi :
Model: 2017 Audi R8 (all normally aspirated !)
Horsepower: 610 hp
Engine: 5.2 L V10
(No more R8 V8 models, but two normally aspirated V10 solutions !)
Or, at Audi sport cars, cylinders = +2 and staying N/A.

New model at Porsche :
No more Boxster/Cayman flat 6, all flat 4 (..and turbo)!
(In my opinion simply an horrible decision, that for example just remove completely ALL my envy to upgrade my old Boxster !)

Porsche, Top of the line, 2017 911 Turbo S :
Horsepower: 580 hp
Engine: 3.8 L flat 6, bi-turbo

About the 2017 Panamera, in Europe, you can get what I think it should be imo the very “Best” model, i.e.: talking about the 4S Diesel, that produce 422hp and can offer more than 40MPG. But, do not ask why, this will not be for us !

About the 2017 top Sedan of the Group, interesting to note that the already announced Audi S8 Plus does 605hp, while the Panamera Turbo (no “S” announced yet) does 550hp !

I have no idea how long is the inertia of the old “decisions” taken by Mr. Piësh, who was a great engineer, but such a Frustrated person, (i.e.: to be the grand son of Dr. Porsche, ..but to NOT carry the name of him !).
While he was at the head of the group, he spend such an energy to have Audi doing better than Porsche, while, in term of the image of the brands, Audi will remain to my eyes, the brand of the grandfa that stays on the left lane, to block the traffic 3 mph below the speed limit, ..and drive with a hat on !
(In Europe, an old saying is that you should always be extremely careful when driving nearby someone that drives wearing a hat !)

By the way, talking about Mr. Piësch, I’m very surprised that the “Dieselgate” do not knock at his doors, as, knowing that he was a CEO that knew the brand of the screwdrivers used by every guys at the production line, I have hard time to not think that he was also very well aware of what was going on at the “software” office !

AndrewP

GVA-SFO:

Agree that we should have the Panamera S Diesel in the US.

Porsche engineers apparently are not happy about the Cayman/Boxter 4 cylinder turbo. Drove a 718 S and it is very impressive, although not as much fun as the recent Boxter Spyder.

Do not fret about the power in the S8 compared to the new Panamera Turbo. Would you really rather drive an S8 either on the highway or on twisty roads than a Panamera? The R8 might be fun for track work if one cannot afford the Huracan, but the 991.2 TTS is far more accessible for daily driving and track work, IMHO. (I have only driven the Huracan and my 991 TTS on track and the Huracan was a bit more confidence inspiring as well as much better sounding, but totally impractical for my needs. My guess is that the R8 V-10 would be similar.) I get the NA sound and beautiful exhaust overrun in my PGTS, as well as instant grunt, which are perfect for my needs.

GVA-SFO

Yesterday, returning from a meeting and cruising smoothly at legal speed on freeway, suddenly, running rough, and lots of warning messages on center display, i.e.: Check Engine Light, Engine in Low Power Mode, PSM error, etc..
Lucky, was just before exit, so went off freeway, in run rough mode, with low power mode on display, then stopped on the side. Run rough ended to stall, and then, no more restart possible.





Porsche Assistance (always very efficient) and then, “flat bed” call #4, (over 40k miles), car to dealer. This morning, diagnostic : Camshaft sprocket failure !

Well, a big question : Looks like the Panamera/Cayenne V8 engine ..is NOT an interference engine ? I did not know about that.

Did any Panamera V8 owner here have been already hit by such failure ?

mdkelly1

I don't know if this is the issue you are currently experiencing, but you may find the information useful anyway.

There are several threads about cam adjuster screws failing in Cayenne & Panamera 4.8 liter V8's. Porsche initiated a recall campaign in China to address the problem (for Panameras - April 2009 to Sept. 2011 & Cayenne's - March 2010 to Sept. 2011).

You'll find several firsthand owner experiences with the issue as well.

Rather than posting the actual links here, it's easier if you just do a Google search for "Panamera Cam Adjuster Failure" and/or "Cayenne Cam Adjuster Failure."

GVA-SFO

Thanks David,
Today, I got the answer to my above question : Yes the 4.8 liter V8 is definitively an "Interference Engine".
(Note that I would have been quite surprised that an engine with such performances would be a "non Interference" engine !)
I had the very sad news today that I will not get my car this week, as not only the camshaft sprocket broke, ..but I had valves bent, ..that had hard meeting with pistons !
Or, my dear engine, that I loved so much ..is in a very bad shape !

GVA-SFO

After this incident, I decided to Google and read about the problem I just had,
i.e.: V8, N/A and Turbo, from Panamera and Cayenne, between 2009, 2010, 2011 and (?) 2012, i.e.: models that have the Camshaft Adjuster/Sprocket Bolts in aluminum.

Chances that one broke or become loose seems to be important enough that in China, Porsche issued a recall, to change all these bolts.

One image = 1’000 words, i.e.: here is the problem :





On this photo, we can see very well the shape of these infamous aluminum bolts, with the typical Torks that has a bump in the middle, together with one of these, ..that is broken !

Source of the info & Photo copyright : “Rostamon8” from 6speedonline.com
(i.e.: Nothing invented here, this are only a summary/explanations of what has been written extensively on many web sites !)


Some comments :
History,
This could happen in the Passenger (right) bank of the V8, ..or in the Driver side.
About camshaft, two on each side, one for exhaust, and one for intake.
As with "Variocam Plus", only the intake shaft has variable timing, we can face two problem, intake left, or intake right.

When the sprocket of the given shaft get loose, that given shaft stop to run, but till the engine stall (first, as one side being still OK, the engine still has "half" of its power, and/or, somehow the car inertia, force also the engine to continue to run too), so, all the other (3) camshafts do continue to run (in timing).
Chances that some of the valves are open in that given moment (over 4 cylinders, i.e.: 2 valves per cylinder, i.e.: 8 valves that suddenly stop to move) are relatively high, with mean a piston can then hit these valves, and bind them.
On such a case, the engine is quite in a bad shape, as the top side of the piston that had such "meetings", ..is not going to end up in a decent shape.
Or, a complete engine rebuild is required !

Some (rare these days) engine design are said to be "non interference engine", which mean that the architecture/design (i.e.: angles of valves, etc..) of the head is such that even when valves are open, there are no contact possible between the top of the piston when it is on his top position and the valves when they are open.

Well, I was definitively very lucky in this venture : in the rear side of the shaft (the sprockets are in the front side), on the driver side, the shaft turns the high pressure fuel pump, so, this would explain what I have seen, almost first : message that car runs on limited power mode, ..a message that I had already when the high pressure fuel pump died some years ago !

But, on the passenger side, the rear of the shaft seems to turns the pump that works for the power brake and steering. If this happen on the passenger side, you loose immediately all brake and steering assistance, ..or to "reduce" the speed of your car, better put your two feet on the brake pedal, and push with all your weight !
Do simply not imagine what could happen if a truck would brake in the front of you at this exact time !
Very strange that in the USA, Porsche seems to have preferred to get the high cost of engines to rebuild, v.s. the cost of a recall, not counting the possible costs of a real bad accident in the case of loosing the shaft of the right side !
..as, beside almost loosing the brakes, turning the steering wheel become an exercise that would be hard for an Olympic weight lifter athlete !

So, not only, I was lucky that my CPO will end in a month and half, but, I was also lucky that the failure in my case was in the driver side !
(According to the explanations fund on different forums !)
Sure, by curiosity, I will verify this when looking at my car this week.

Well, all to say that if you have a car that is in this range of time of prod, you better check that the bolts ARE NOT the aluminum ones, as, changing them against steel ones, would cost a small fraction v.s. having a one that go on the loose.
They are easy to check, if aluminum ones, then the Torks center has a bump, that makes only a special Torks working to set or remove these.
The steels one are “normal”.
It looks like a dental mirror through the oil filling hole can let you do this check !
Hope this “small” note can save some of your engines !