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Bought 2013 Panamera Turbo S in non running condition, airbags not blown. Pyro Fuse still normal according to system scan. This isn't my first major Panamera repair, wont be my last. Engine was locked up. Sourced a used takeout VIN C engine with its own harness, have swapped and installed.
I have no backstory on the car. Don't know what caused the previous failure, or its history. The oil and sludge in the pan was intriguing though.
Now to the problem, All scanning done with a Launch X431
The car cranks, but has no spark.
After cranking, DME reports P0344 and P0349 (Limit Value Exceeded), Bank 1 & 2 intake cam sensor codes. Can clear, crank again and they return. Have verified 12v input and ground at both connectors. Have also traced both signal wires back to DME and verified continuity. Had 2 extra cam sensors from old motor that also produce the same codes. No crank sensor code, but have also verified 5v and ground at CPS connector.
I do not currently have an oscilloscope to check any of the 4 cam sensor outputs. Highly unlikely 4 bad sensors I would think.
Those 2 codes could possibly be enough to cause no spark I guess?
I also believe I've checked all fuses.
Honestly after cranking on it a bit and then pulling a plug or 2, there is no fuel smell or wetness on the plugs. I know I've got fuel pressure to the rail, and while setting with just the key on and pump primed its showing 80+psi. I've had another before with a bad HPFP, but it would still run off just the lift pump pressure.
Possible lack of fuel and no spark makes me thinking antitheft/immobilizer. Key has a new battery and lock, unlocks and functions correctly .
Ground strap from engine to chassis has been cleaned and double checked. Also ground under the DME on the bottom side of the fender well has been checked and cleaned. I've seen missing/bad ground cause crazy problems before, so If i left one off somehow, it wouldn't be surprising.
I'm not convinced its coding, but there's no telling with not knowing the cars history. However, the manual states ...
Following replacement of the high-pressure pump and engine, the values for the high-pressure adaptation must be reset using the PIWIS Tester. Then carry out a test and adaptation drive.
Read the information in the section → 247019 REMOVING AND INSTALLING DME CONTROL UNIT
The current software must be installed on the control unit if necessary. Following conversion to a new engine, it is possible that an old software version may still be installed on the control unit
Quite long, but any thoughts ?
I'll attach a few pics for fun.
I've got a good relationship with my local dealer service advisor, but I'm not ready to go that route yet.
Very cool project - do you do this for fun or profit?
Have you verified if there is any spark? edit - I see you said that you did verify no spark.
"Those 2 codes could possibly be enough to cause no spark I guess?" Unlikely IMO.
"Immobilizer" was in the back of my head as well. But I don't know the details of how the Porsche system works so can't really give any input.
The codes are odd though - is it possible there's a discrepancy in the pinouts of the 2013 chassis and the engine wire (of unknown year?) that you're using?
Very cool project - do you do this for fun or profit?
Have you verified if there is any spark? edit - I see you said that you did verify no spark.
"Those 2 codes could possibly be enough to cause no spark I guess?" Unlikely IMO.
"Immobilizer" was in the back of my head as well. But I don't know the details of how the Porsche system works so can't really give any input.
The codes are odd though - is it possible there's a discrepancy in the pinouts of the 2013 chassis and the engine wire (of unknown year?) that you're using?
Hobby, Fun, Profit, all of it... Keeps me busy. Lol
I only checked 1 cylinder for spark, but there's none.
I also seem to think it would at least still fire with those 2 codes, but may not run smoothly.
I'm also not familiar with the Porsche antitheft immobilizer. Some makes cut fuel, some cut spark, some both...
I have not checked the entire harness, but the 6 to 8 pins I have checked are the same on the DME connector.
Very cool project - do you do this for fun or profit?
Have you verified if there is any spark? edit - I see you said that you did verify no spark.
"Those 2 codes could possibly be enough to cause no spark I guess?" Unlikely IMO.
"Immobilizer" was in the back of my head as well. But I don't know the details of how the Porsche system works so can't really give any input.
The codes are odd though - is it possible there's a discrepancy in the pinouts of the 2013 chassis and the engine wire (of unknown year?) that you're using?
Fun, hobby, happy wife, profit... Lol... Keeps me busy...before I started this one I could not really find where anyone was swapping motors at home, so I wasn't sure the kind of response this would get...
I only verified no spark on 1 cylinder, didn't check the other 7
I feel like it should run, although probably very rough with those cam codes.
I'm not familiar with the Porsche antitheft/immobilizer system either. Not sure if it cuts spark, fuel, or both. I also tried what I think is a valet key I have, and get the same results.
I'm not sure about all the pinouts on the Dme connector, but the 6-8 that I've checked have been the same.
In this scenario if you verified no spark on 1 cylinder I think that's enough to say there's almost certainly no spark on any cylinder.
I agree with your assessment that those codes would be more likely to cause rough running - at the very least even if it wouldn't RUN it would at least stumble and try to fire, and it sounds like you don't even have that.
Do you have the copies of the wiring diagrams and repair manuals that got posted here at some point?
I enjoy these sort of troubleshooting mysteries so much more compared to the seventh iteration of
I have the manuals and EWD on my work computer, I'm going to look at them tomorrow and see if I can figure anything out regarding the immobilizer.
My hesitation is that for the immobilizer system that I am familiar with, they intentionally limit repair info, and even hide/encrypt info in the diagnostics,so if Porsche does that too it makes life harder
In this scenario if you verified no spark on 1 cylinder I think that's enough to say there's almost certainly no spark on any cylinder.
I agree with your assessment that those codes would be more likely to cause rough running - at the very least even if it wouldn't RUN it would at least stumble and try to fire, and it sounds like you don't even have that.
Do you have the copies of the wiring diagrams and repair manuals that got posted here at some point?
I enjoy these sort of troubleshooting mysteries so much more compared to the seventh iteration of
I have the manuals and EWD on my work computer, I'm going to look at them tomorrow and see if I can figure anything out regarding the immobilizer.
My hesitation is that for the immobilizer system that I am familiar with, they intentionally limit repair info, and even hide/encrypt info in the diagnostics,so if Porsche does that too it makes life harder
Yes, I have the 134 page wire diagram, and the 2011-2015 repair manual, 12,290 pages. These are how I traced wires and pin connections.
I must say I have not really investigated the wiring/operation of the immobilizer. This is my 3rd panamera. The first one I ever had required a new rear body module, among removing the entire interior, it controlled the alarm system and immobilizer and would constantly sound the alarm until I had the dealer program it.
This troubleshooting is definitely somewhat unique. I'm intrigued by it for sure. It says alot that I've had to resort to making a post, as I feel like 95% of problems are easily searchable. I haven't posted on any of the other tech sites yet.
I probably should have bought a piwis clone on the first car... Lol Panamera anti theft immobilizer wiring diagram
The immobilizer system I'm familiar with can be temporarily reset (ie engine can be started for one key cycle) by jumping certain pins in the OBD2 connector for like 20 minutes, I wonder if Porsche has something similar.
Did a little more scanning today, looking for something that stuck out at me in anything related to the antitheft unit. Also looked through the rear module values. I'm not seeing anything.
I'm using a Launch X431 which has some coding and actuator features. When in the DME I can not seem to get any of the actuator tests to run. Even simple things like turning the radiator fans on... Any camshaft actuation command fails also.
I can however get something as simple as the driver door window to go up and down when logged into the driver door module and sending commands. Same with the level control, it will self test and perform other functions.
I was hoping for a little more input and ideas, but I also understand this is dealer level stuff.. I have not cross posted anywhere else yet.
03-29-2022, 02:25 AM
2013 Turbo S Engine Swap Problem
