DB_Omaha

Hi all.

I'm currently driving a 2007 MB S600. Love the thrust, love the quiet, it's an amazing highway cruiser. But, I'm getting the urge for something different. That, and the older S600s... well, they're not world renowned for reliability as they age, and I'm in the mood for something that's a little less of a "hobby" and more of a "driver".

I've never owned a Porsche of any flavor. I test drove a used 970 base model a couple years back. It was OK, but lacked the power I was looking for. I ended up with the S600. Now I've been looking at a number of Panameras again -- of course none are local to me, or even close. I'd like something at least as quick as the S600, as that kind of thing gets addictive. The list is narrowing down to a batch of 2010 and 2011 Panamera Turbos. Oddly, there seem to be a number of them with pretty low mileage for pretty reasonable money. Of course there's no such thing as a free lunch, and all that... so why should I not buy, say, a 60K mile 2010 Turbo that's listed in the mid to high 30s? What are the headaches I'll be dealing with if I do? I know the air suspension is not known for longevity, and I would assume pretty much any of them would need front brakes.

I do nearly all my own service and repairs. I have a laptop with the Mercedes software and a passthrough adapter to connect it to the car for diagnostics and programming. I'm assuming I'll need to find a PIWIS setup of, ahem, similar ancestry to do the same on a Porsche, so any insight there would be appreciated as well.

I made some mistakes when buying the S-class, and I'd like use those "tuition payments" so as not to repeat them.

DogWood

with most cars, but especially with Porsche's, maintenance records are very important. At 60k on Panamera's there is a major maintenance due.
Most panny's are reliable but as with all things mechanical there are less than good ones out there.
Most here will recommend a PPI from a reputable shop.

Shuga

Always ask for a video walk around. I've seen some that are destroyed with rock chips in weird places. When I was looking a few weeks ago most Turbos where 35-40k.

DB_Omaha

Yeah, the cosmetic issues are a factor when the candidate vehicles are almost all 500-1300 miles away, and I'm not a retired airline captain with free transportation anywhere I want to go. But I'm mostly looking for the commonly occurring mechanical "gotchas" I should look for, the ones that could easily make me regret buying the car. The Merc has a pair of $1K coil packs, for example, and ABC hydraulic suspension that either works fantastic, or takes all your money and flushes it down the toilet.

Of course none of these are cheap to own and maintain. But there's "not cheap", and then there's "excruciatingly expensive enough to suck the joy right out of owning it". I've been lucky so far in some respects, not so lucky in others. I'd rather be a lot more lucky the next time around.

knowspin

I don't know, you're looking at 10 to 11 year old cars with turbos and possibly (perish the thought) air suspension. I don't know your budget, but I would keep looking for the latest possible model you can afford. Even if you pay more than you would like, you'll probably make up for in the lack of future repairs.

DB_Omaha

Oddly enough -- turbos have never once caused a problem with anything I've owned. Everything I've owned since I bought my 2011 F150 (still have it and it's my DD) has been turbocharged, right up until my wife insisted on a NA Toyota. Gag. Zero issues with engine internals, turbos, etc. Now, ignition, cooling, brakes... that's a different story entirely. The air suspension on the Panamera doesn't scare me, but if it's one of those things pretty much guaranteed to break shortly after I buy it -- I just want to know up front what to watch out for, and what to budget for repairs and replacements i the first year or so. I figure anything this old will spend a day or two up on the lift sorting out the neglect and ignorance of prior owners and repair shops.

I'd buy a 971 4S and be perfectly happy, but they won't be in the range of what I'm willing to spend on a toy for another couple of years.

Atlas_Shrugz

For a 2010 ish model you can certainly expect the bellows on the struts to go out soon if they haven't already been replaced. If you go with RMT refurbs or Suncore or similar they are anywhere from $300 to $700 per strut. You may also have to replace the suspension compressor which you can get refurbed for between $200 and $300. You may also need to replace the air suspension valve block which is around $250. You should also go ahead and replace the relay while you're at it but it's not expensive (under $8 at PartsGeek.com) So all told you can get it done for under $2K if you do the work yourself and don't buy top of the line stuff like Arnott struts ($1.4K per.) I'm in the middle of doing these repairs on my 2010 Panamera Turbo that I picked up with only 19K miles. Another common issue is the PCM going bad. The PCM on mine was bad when I went to test drive it and had them replace it as part of the condition for sale. There are inexpensive refurb options but replacing it is around $4k with a new one if I remember correctly. That being said, I wouldn't trade mine for anything. I love this car and it's totally worth it, IMHO. It's a really fun car to drive.

knowspin

I hear ya!

OCNYPORSCHE

Even the new 4S has a good deal of power from its turbos. I think you will really be pleasantly surprised doing a test drive of a new 4S. If you can afford a Turbo, then there are few cars that can really beat it.

DB_Omaha

It's true. A 2014-ish 4S would probably do, and be a bit lighter on its feet as well.

ultramens

Just to chime in on my experience, great car but expensive. Purchase a 2010 Turbo little over a year ago in perfect condition (guy had all receipts of all work done). Had a full PPI done at Porsche before purchase with compression test. No issues found.

Within the year, I had the High Pressure Fuel Pump (HPFP) go bad and it was about 4K to fix.
About 6 months later, the air suspension and compressor went out, another 4K to fix.
Right now, I am dealing with a Vacuum Leak.

But all in all, the drive is great. The low rumble of the V8 makes me smile everything I turn it on. The choice is yours, but know that if/when things break, it will get pricey.

XLR82XS

Have you considered a Taycan? I ordered one in April.

DB_Omaha

Hahahahaha... you're talking to a V12 Mercedes owner... very familiar with both the "high cylinder count grin" and the high cost of repairs. Thanks, though, seriously, for your response.

I took the Merc to a local indy shop with a really good reputation with a little laundry list of items to fix. A little coolant leak, a ride quality issue, harsh shifting on cold startup. Nothing huge. Their repair estimate was over $13K. In the end I ended up fixing all of it myself -- their "fixes" would have actually fixed less than half the problems, and I spent a grand total of about $2K doing it all. But I digress. On further reflection, I think a later year 4S or Turbo would be the way to go. The Merc is also the first year of production for that chassis and engine (2007), and of course the 2010 facelift models have an awful lot of fixes and improvements. I have to think a '14 or later Panamera would be a better bet for things like the air suspension and so on. While I do like V8 and V12 engines, a twin turbo V6 has its own appeal (says the EcoBoost driver).

I'm not in a rush. I think I'll bide my time a little and expand the range of what I'm willing to consider a little bit. As long as it will run a quarter in under 13, it's a candidate. I am a little picky about options, though. Not sure I could go back to not having soft-close doors and power window blinds. I mean, we're not savages.

Not in my toy budget until they've got a few years' depreciation under them, to be honest, and I'm not really sure I even like them.

ManoTexas

Air Suspension and coolant tubes with glued connections (when fail they replace with clamped tubes)- 2 main S issues.
S or 4S good choice. Make list of performance options required and start looking- Sport Chrono/PASM/PDDC/PTV/PDLS. I also have PSE but never use as low value with sound deadening glass. Good luck with soft close doors, window shades, and color. Add those three to list and may be looking for long time lol.
Happy hunting!!

Shuga

GTS Is the way to go then