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I've been thinking about moving from my Panamera into a GT3 (I know, completely different car). I don't need the Panamera as a daily driver so I'm looking for something fun.
That said, I'm well aware of the huge depreciation hit for these cars, especially the sport turismo. However, once I listed my car, I don't see any competition. The number of 4 e-hybrid sport turismos for sale in the U.S. right now (new or used) can be counted on one hand. You can order a new one if you like, but I doubt a dealer has any incentive to give a huge discount.
Dare I say this could eventually become a rare car?
A hybrid ST is Ferrari rare in the US, we actually figured that out based on sales numbers on another thread but I'm too lazy to go look for it. That doesn't mean it will hold value well, some wagons have while others have tanked. Something to keep in mind is the glut of STs Porsche dumped on the lots at it's release took more than a year to clear off and last I looked a few still remained even after huge mark downs on them. There are two things there that stand out to me right off the bat; it's not easy to move a wagon in the US and those cars would have been depressing used car pricing as there really still isn't anything but like new STs that are going to be in the used market and they would be competing against those heavily discounted new cars. Now that the lot queens are largely cleared out and people are starting to get out more we'll get a better idea of what value the market puts on the ST.
When I was looking a few months ago (just before virus) there were 3 new and 1 certified - that was it. Dealer would not take order on a new one so I grabbed the certified one. Still isn't registered because DMV still closed and I bought out of state. Lately I see a few more used ones entering the market ( probably lease returns). But no other new. Very few have rear wheel steering and most are not loaded with options. Maybe dealer strategy was to stay below the GTS ST in cost. Wouldn't be shocked if all 3 new ones are still on dealer lots.
There seem to be more regular Panamera 4 and 4S STs at the low end. Only 2 e-hybrids. As of today here is the used ST breakdown on Autotrader (in the U.S.):
4, qty 13, range: $65k to $82k
4 e-hybrid, qty 2, range: $99k (one price not listed)
4S, qty 14, range: $80k to $105k
Turbo, qty 14, range: $95k to $140k
Turbo S, qty 6, range $142k to $170k
I understand supply/demand and while demand is low for a wagon in the U.S., I don't believe it is zero. Because of the low numbers, KBB won't even put a number on it. So I guess we'll see what the market brings to bear.
And I just verified on Edmunds - the same 3 cars from 3 months ago still listed. They were not negotiating much then - probably will now one in Boston, one in NJ and one in Washington state
When I was looking a few months ago (just before virus) there were 3 new and 1 certified - that was it. Dealer would not take order on a new one so I grabbed the certified one. Still isn't registered because DMV still closed and I bought out of state. Lately I see a few more used ones entering the market ( probably lease returns). But no other new. Very few have rear wheel steering and most are not loaded with options. Maybe dealer strategy was to stay below the GTS ST in cost. Wouldn't be shocked if all 3 new ones are still on dealer lots.
Did you grab the black on red interior one? I recall one listed around $110 and was certified. If so, congrats on a beautiful ride.
I think over time it could become more coveted due to rarity, but I dont expect it.
I originally wanted a GTS ST but the tax credits, and depreciation tax benefits of the hybrid car were too much to ignore. The problem as noted is most inventory and CPO cars were very sparsely optioned and rarely with sport options like rear steer or sport exhaust, let alone the crazier stuff like sport design package.
so I took the plunge and ordered a ST and speced it similarly to a GTS. The guys at PECLA actually thought it was a GTS or Turbo S E hybrid when we took delivery, before looking at the sheet.
as much as Id like to think my high spec car would hold value I fully anticipate itll be worth only a bit more than the other STs that have dived in value.
but I think cars are horrible investments anyway, so I say buy what you want, and if its worth nothing when youre done with it then youve gotten your moneys worth. Invest in the stock market, waste money on cars
Yes, I don't think that one should buy any new Porsche with a worry toward trade-in value or resale value. If that's the case, then you probably are over your head financially in buying a new Porsche.
I special-ordered my 2018 4 E-Hybrid ST with the idea of keeping it a long time, though with a concern about how such a complex drivetrain might fare outside of warranty. (photo of my car below; the brake dust on the wheels is a constant hassle)
I think over time it could become more coveted due to rarity, but I dont expect it.
I originally wanted a GTS ST but the tax credits, and depreciation tax benefits of the hybrid car were too much to ignore. The problem as noted is most inventory and CPO cars were very sparsely optioned and rarely with sport options like rear steer or sport exhaust, let alone the crazier stuff like sport design package.
so I took the plunge and ordered a ST and speced it similarly to a GTS. The guys at PECLA actually thought it was a GTS or Turbo S E hybrid when we took delivery, before looking at the sheet.
as much as Id like to think my high spec car would hold value I fully anticipate itll be worth only a bit more than the other STs that have dived in value.
but I think cars are horrible investments anyway, so I say buy what you want, and if its worth nothing when youre done with it then youve gotten your moneys worth. Invest in the stock market, waste money on cars
Perhaps my post came across incorrectly. Of course I know cars are horrible investments. Im not looking to make a return on my car.
Every seller has unique circumstances that dictate what pricing one will accept. Im just curious on general resale values given the complete lack of inventory. Its simple supply and demand. Demand is low for reasons we are all aware of, but so is supply.
I really think it's going to be a while before any clear picture of values in the used market will be had. I wouldn't be expecting much in any event: Dealers wont order one unless it's a customer car as they don't want it sitting on the lot forever. The reason they sit on the lot is that wagons are a hard sell in the US, people in general don't' want them and won't buy them. Cars in this segment all loose a lot of value rolling off the lot and Porsche more than most because it's overpriced compared to it's competition all of which can be had for less both new and in the used market. This depresses the used price of all Pamamera's, ST or not, because they face the psychological barrier of being a used car along with being overpriced new and the used market is not as forgiving. I'm not saying the ST wont hold value better than a comparable sedan, it might, but I do think depreciation will be more a matter of which one is harder to flush; they're both going to be turds. That's my fearless prediction.
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one in Boston, one in NJ and one in Washington state
E-hybrid ST Resale
