SLP

So after the birth of our first child, I recently sold my 911 Carrera 2009, and still have our Cayenne S 2012 (wifes). Looking to now purchase a Panamera (for myself), 2017, however, although I know all of the differences between all models of 911's and Cayennes, I know little about the Panamera. Besides quad exhaust tips and the extra 100 hp, are there main aesthetic differences between the 4 and 4s? Although cost savings is a driver with going for the 4 vs 4s, I am also finding some better optioned 4's over 4s. But I want to know if there is something I'm not aware of that would make the S a (much) better car.

Also, as 2017 is the year I'm looking for, anything specific I should keep an eye out for or be concerned about?

Appreciate all of your insight and advice!

krabman

Turbo lag is somewhat of a problem with any 971 that doesn't include Hybrid in the name and it's far and away at it's worst in the base and 4, I would test drive one and see where you stand with it before buying. I bought a Panamera because I rented the 4 from Enterprise and that was all it took to get me to buy in. To be honest I think I might have been ok with a 4 if it had sport chrono; it does much better when you utilize the modes but the rental I had didn't have sport chrono and even in the 4 days I had the car I ran into a number of situations where I needed quick oomph but that isn't available in the standard mode with a stomp of the foot and by the time I switched screens to get to the button to select sport mode the moment was gone. I ended up getting a 4S which is better in this regard, it still gathers it's skirts before it's off but it's lag is significantly less when caught flat footed and with sport chrono I find I'm usually keeping it in a mode that keeps in on a boil.

So... This is only my opinion but the 4S in the used market isn't a whole lot more than the 4 and it is a real step up in power and has less turbo lag. I also highly recommend no matter what car you buy you get the sport chrono; it's not about the chrono as few will ever time a lap. Utilizing the modes and having them at the tips of your fingers where you can actually benefit from them in the heat of the moment is a key element in getting full satisfaction from the car. Throw in sport plus which is where the car really comes alive when you're flogging it and I call it money well spent. The goofy gauge on the dash, they throw that in for free.

Beer Brewer

I’m with Krabman on this question. I had a Panamera 4 for about a week while my Macan Turbo was being worked on. While the 4 sold me on the Panamera platform, I didn’t feel it had quite enough power for spirited driving. It’s quick, to be sure (0-60 in 4.8 or so? ), but even with sport chrono my loaner just felt like it didn’t have enough oomph. To be fair, I am somewhat of a power junkie and feel even my new 4S needs more juice, so there you go. I’d say with the 4 you’ll get a comfortable, brilliant handling and very well-made sedan that won’t scorch the pavement. The 4S is in an upper echelon of power and acceleration throughout the power band and almost feels “fast.” Aside from the tailpipes and badges, I don’t believe there are aesthetic differences between the two assuming identical options (sport appearance package, etc.). Personally I’m finding the 4S to be the “Goldilocks” solution, offering enough zip for spirited driving when needed, and always delivering a highly composed and comfortable ride. My 4S was about $7k more than a comparably optioned 4 and, for me, it was money well spent. Hope this helps!

fgv1it

Another vote for the 4S. Before I got my car, I was driving another sport sedan with very similar weight, hp, and torque to the Panamera 4, and while it was "adequate", I felt that I wanted a little more. So, I got a 4S and have never regretted it. I briefly considered a Turbo, but the price increase was too much for additional performance that I would never need nor use in normal driving. So, as stated before, the 4S was the "goldilocks" choice for me. Contrary to some comments above, I find the turbo lag in the 4S to be minimal to non-existent. Yes, it is a heavy car, and if you stomp on it at low revs it will take a moment to get going, just like any heavy car with a gas engine would, but by the time you count to three, you'll be in loose-your-license territory on most roads out there.

amelen

Definitely 4S. It's a completely different driving experience.

SLP

All very helpful. I did test drive a 4, thought it was peppy enough, although, that being said, it was a straight shot drive through the suburbs on major thoroughfares with little traffic. I may have come to a complete stop once or twice at maximum. I should probably test drive a 4s this week...maybe a stupid question, but should i try any specific driving maneuvers to feel this potential turbo lag? I've never had a turbo in any of my cars, so this would be the first. So, I can imagine what turbo lag is, but i have never actually experienced it.

I also look forward to any additional insights and experiences on the 4 vs 4s!

krabman

Thanks to CAFE you're facing some very aggressive upshifting with almost any new car and the Panamera is guilty of this behavior. This means you're facing two lags, the time it takes to kick-down to more advantageous gearing and turbo lag; they stack but what's worse is the turbo needs exhaust gas velocity to spool and you need to increase rpm to get that velocity but that is delayed by the kick-down process. To get a feel for the turbo lag alone put it in manual mode and get into a 30 mph zone (for example) and choose a gear that seems reasonable for steady state cruising at that speed. If you're like most people this will have you around 1500ish RPM without any lugging on the engine. Go ahead and hammer the throttle. You'll immediately hear the engine revs increase but the full thrust does not come with it, there is a bit of a delay while you await the turbo spooling up to the point where it gets up into it's efficiency zone and is creating significant boost; that's when you feel the full woot factor. This all happens quickly in the real world, the one following the other.

jivor

If you're concerned about performance, consider the following. 0-60 for your Carrera is estimated to be 4.5 sec. weighing 3075lbs. 0-60 for the Panamera 4 is 5.0 sec. weighing 4079lbs. 0-60 for the Panamera 4s is 4.4 sec. weighing 4123lbs. So if you want something akin to the old 911, then the 4s should do the job; you'll probably pay around $4k more (Panamera 4 is selling around 79k and the 4s around 83k).

The Panamera is definitely more practical; I have two child seats in the back of mine. I can help my wife out to pick up the kids and a I can pile a decent amount of items, including suitcases, in the trunk.

You can get a Panamera 4 with the quad exhausts if you look; my base Panamera has them in black. Coming from a 460 Hp Corvette GS, weighing 3428lbs. and having a 0-60 of 3.8 sec., the base Panamera with 330 HP at 4051lbs. is not as agile, but honestly, my driving style is not aggressive, so I don't really miss the punch of my old coupe. You may need a little more kick, so the extra power is something you'll have to decide to keep or not.

krabman

Something interesting to consider is that in the real world a 4S eclipses the performance of a C6 Corvette in almost every way. Faster in the quarter, 0 to 60, more lateral grip, etc. Porsche is well known for their conservative numbers, some might say, sandbagging. They are all faster than Porsches official numbers indicate, the base, 4, 4S, and every other model. Where does the 4S really hit? I've included a video to give you an idea. I myself considered a 4 because from the start this was my beater car. That changed after I drove the 4S, primarily because power does not make the Panamera worse.

amelen

Yup, C&D managed a 0-60 of 3.6s:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...s-test-review/

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 3.6 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 9.3 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 16.7 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 4.8 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 2.6 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 1.7 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 12.1 sec @ 114 mph
Top speed (drag limited, mfr's claim): 179 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 151 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 1.03 g

CanuckGT4

yes it may be quick with launch control however...
with casual daily driving there is a serious lack of low rpm torque. need to be above 4000rpm imo to feel the power/performance.
i guess i'm just too used to the RS7 TTV8 power, such a difference at the low end.

amelen

Absolutely agree with you. On paper, it's faster than a S6/S7, but driving around it feels slower. The piggy back tunes help a bit, but obviously won't replace the feel of a 4.0TT. If the GTS was available when I got my 4S, I would have definitely opted for that since my 4S is priced out to the GTS level anyway.

fgv1it

The 4S produces max torque at 1750 rpm. I think you guys are talking mainly sound and feel. For those of us that remember the old 2.0 and 3.0 liter normally aspirated air-cooled flat sixes, there is no lack of low end torque in the 4S.

krabman

It's making torque but it's not doing much with it. Setting aside other variables like gearing, COD, and so on max acceleration occurs when the engine is doing the most work over time (highest hp) and you need to get the rpm up for that, it doesn't occur until much later in the 4S with steep slope leading to a peak at about 5000 rpm and falling off significantly after 6000 rpm. Meanwhile the typical V8 has more area under the curve with the greatest delta at the bottom end where a smaller turbocharged engine is not yet making the boost to move as much air. I like the 4S, keep it on a boil and it moves along nicely, it's well mannered in town, gets great mileage. It's no substitute for a V8 though, you want V8 power you need a V8.