Schroedinger

Greetings all, first post here. Not a Porsche owner (yet), but exploring my options in anticipation.

Background: mid 40’s family guy with two early teenage kids, business executive, suburb dweller with a two car garage, track addict with three seasons under my belt doing HPDE at least once a month. I frequently drive Road Atlanta, Atlanta Motorsports Park, and Barber. I daily a SUV and have a Miata that I’ve been dialing in for the track the last three years, and I drive the wheels off of it. It is currently turbo and a hoot on the track, and I’m usually running competitively with the Boxster and Cayman S, Mustang GT, Camaro SS, even some base 911’s. However my skills and lap times have improved to the point that I’m starting to have more and more problems with it. I’m wrestling with overheating issues, have now cracked two exhaust manifolds, go through brake pads every 8-10 sessions, etc. I’m going to pull the turbo out and play the “slow car fast” game for the rest of the summer, but I’m starting to plan an upgrade to a platform that can handle what I want to throw at it. I’ve seen a lot of Porsches at the track, but still haven’t seen anyone underneath one trying to fix it between sessions. In general they seem well-built for the job.

In an ideal world, I could sell off the SUV and the Miata and move to one car that would do DD duty for my 5 mile commute, can handle family responsibilities (i.e. has a usable back seat), would play the “business executive” role when needed for customer meetings, and could still be a legitimate track tool. I know, it’s asking a lot from one vehicle. The need for a real back seat rules out the Cayman, Boxster, 911, GT350, ZL1, etc unless I want to stick with two different cars.

I have a friend who bought a 2014 Panamera Turbo brand new with PDK and all the options except the carbon ceramic brakes. He babied it but had to move out of the country, and I could probably get it for a fair price. Going to a 4400lb car after driving a Miata seems a bit crazy, but he had it out to the track a few times and it seemed like it was up to the job (at least for his amateur skill level at the time). It makes cool noises and doesn’t seem to corner like the school bus that it is.

So my list of questions:

- Anyone here giving a Panamera Turbo serious work as a track tool?
- Any problems to report?
- Can it put down competitive lap times with the 911’s, Vettes, Camaros, etc. or is it just too heavy?
- Are the suspension and brakes really up to the job? Does it have the ability to dial in sufficient stiffness, camber, etc? Am I going to be dealing with brake fade issues, or eating through pads quickly?
- Is the cost of tires and brake pads going to put me in the poor house on such a heavy car?

Thanks in advance.

jnolan

too heavy... buy a GT4 for the track and the Panamera for your daily driver. I agree that these cars do not drive as heavy as they are but physics doesn’t care how the car feels.

GoBlue!

I've done a couple demo days in a 971 turbo. It's seriously fast and does surprisingly well on the track *for its size and weight*. I am on the hunt for a 971 myself and I may do a couple DE days a year in it. That said, I would not consider it good for semi-serious track work. It's big and heavy. Brakes and tires.... The bigger problem is tracking a DD is putting all your eggs in one basket. Run into a problem on the track, like a wall and you are really hosed.

Porsches, including the Panny, are really overbuilt and that is one reason you don't see them breaking down on the track. But they are not Miatas and not cheap after market parts. It would be a big investment to setup a panny for serious track work and it may not be the best strategy for you.

Schroedinger

Thanks for the feedback. Anyone here actually done it? Here are some relevant Nurburgring lap times for production cars:

7:52 970 Panamera Turbo S
7:52 2018 M2 Competition Package
7:54 2008 Nissan GT-R
7:54 996 911 GT3
7:54 997 911 Turbo
7:56 970 Panamera Turbo
7:56 Corvette C5 Z06
7:59 2009 Cadillac CTS-V

So it looks like it can run with the big dogs when driven properly.

jnolan

there is a difference between doing a hot lap and a track session in a car like this, and the Ring is 13 miles with some really long straights. I have taken my E63S Estate on the track and at 4,400 lbs it eats the tires and brakes quickly, as well as cooks the brake fluid. Laguna is the closest track to me and throwing a car like this around 11 turns with short straight sections and hard braking for 20 minutes is going to take a toll on everything from consumables to suspension components (i replaced lower control arm bushings at 30k miles).

jnolan

It is clear you just want someone to say “go for it” so I’ll be that guy. You should go for it.

GoBlue!

I am looking to borrow/rent a 971 Turbo for a late Aug HPDE at Laguna. I have a line on one potential. If It works out, I’ll update this post.

Schroedinger

Thank you, exactly the type of feedback I was looking for. I’m actually not just looking for validation for a decision I’ve already made; I just wanted to see if anyone had real-world experience tracking these beasts. There are a lot of things that don’t look great on paper but actually work OK. I have a friend with a 4000 lb CTS-V that will turn fast laps all day long without issue, so 4400 lbs isn’t crazy by comparison. Heck, the ZL1 1LE is over 3800 lbs and it’s a purpose built track car. One of those may actually be a better choice than the Pana for my needs. Nonetheless, it really is looking like I’m better sticking with two vehicles instead of trying for a do-it-all tool.

Outlaw

It better have PDCC.

GoBlue!

Buy the car anyway. Even if you don’t track it

mafpolo

I ran a GTS hard on the track at Barber, and for an amateur, I was incredibly impressed with how the car handled and performed. I did not pay attention to metrics on time, etc. I was blown away by the performance. Frankly, the Panamera didn't feel much different (I know that this comment is high treason) compared to a base 911through the turns. Barber is a great track, and with all the elevation change and short straits, handling is dire. If you do buy and track it, let us know how it goes.

GoBlue!

Many of the instructors at the Porsche sport driving school at Barber have told me their favorite Porsche is the Panamera Turbo. Of course they are not paying for tires or brakes

krabman

Rather than whether it can work I'd be thinking about how much it's going to cost you. You'll scrub off a lot of rubber, pads, go through fluids. Anyone who tells you that you wont break when going to the track with regularity will also tell you they always win in Vegas and have never masturbated. As an alternative you can buy hardware that will equal that PTs lap time for the cost of it's transmission, a beater C6 comes to mind. Cars like that have more parts available for modifications that will help it stand up to the rigors of regular track use, are much less expensive in running costs, have massively cheaper parts when it comes to repairs, and won't make you weep when you shovel pea gravel over the hood. Cars like that will put exactly the same stupid grin on your face and the ol lady will get an equally proper rogering when you get home.

Of course if money is no object and you're set on campaigning a Panamera Turbo, well, you're my hero, please carry on.

Schroedinger

Possibly the best response I’ve ever read. Bravo sir.

The unfortunate truth is that my Miata is probably the best tool for the job from a smiles/$ standpoint. It is as fast as most exotics in the corners and consumables and parts are practically free compared to a Porsche. It forces me to be a better driver. It would be really reliable without the turbo. It just gives me sadness to tailgate slower drivers in nicer cars for consecutive laps because they know how to step on a gas pedal and don’t want to point me by in the straights.

jnolan

Correction, 4,515 lbs dry so add another 500 lbs of fluids and driver. You really feel the weight in these cars in track situations and my Panamera Turbo S hybrid is 1k lbs heavier but it does not drive like a 5,500 lb car at all. Around town and in the canyons. That really just comes down to steering rack (and RAS), power and center of gravity... it is still 5,500 lbs of mass and that mass resides way out in front of and in back of the center of rotation, unlike a 911.

FWIW, I have been on the track with guys in CTS-Vs and they run fast but you see them dropping off through the session as their tires overheat and get greasy and brakes start fading. The physics problems of mass, friction and heat cannot be ameliorated by even the best auto engineers. Same with the Teslas in spite of the eye popping acceleration.