SHF1

I was just at my dealer and my sales guy told me that there will not be any additional Sport Turismo models coming to the US. Have any of you heard about this?

jnolan

Well they haven’t exactly been flying off the shelves.

CanuckGT4

There is about as much demand as a case of herpes on prom night it seems. Sad, but hopefully helps resale prices!

jnolan

These are some of the most niche models available. Even seasoned car industry followers are surprised to learn that Mercedes only produces about 235 E63S Estates per model year, 1/2 come to the US market. Porsche is typically really good about estimating demand and managing supply but in the case of the Sport Turismo, they really overshot the market. There are a lot of ST cars for sale right now and that last time I looked there were 17 Turbo S e-hybrid models, all MSRP’ing for over $200k. There just isn’t enough market for this car at that price point. BMW and Audi don’t even bother bringing their supercar wagons to the US market.

neurotic

Local dealer told me that if you want one, you can order one. But not to expect random wagons on dealer lots with out a buyer attached.

I have my heart on a GTS wagon

jnolan

Well that is a load of dealer bull$hit. There are 170 brand new Sport Turismos for sale in the US right now.

pokingaround

This is a bummer but not all that surprising, especially when pared with the fact that the "better value" E63S only sells 235 copies/year, with half of those in the US, as @jnolan cited and as I've read elsewhere. That's a stunningly low number to me.

Now add $25k-75k to the MSRP, subtract some utility, subtract some sound track, subtract some performance (in anything other than the Turbo S e-Hybrid model) and poof. There goes the business case for the ST. Turns out not that many people want a $125k - $200k station wagon from *any* mfr. SUVs otoh...crazy.

That said, I freaking love my ST Turbo, and it may have just turned into a total unicorn. I think by now most of you know the crazy deal I got on my Turbo ST, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. It's the best car I've ever owned or driven, bar none. I'd recommend an ST whether this rumor is true or not, especially one of the 170 sitting on dealer lots...

EDIT: articles like this:

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...hooting-brake/

...from mid-2017 were talking about ST sales projected (hoped?) in the 20% range, or around 1200/year in the US. Oops?

EDIT2: it also occurs to me that with 170 examples of a super-low demand vehicle sitting on lots, some dealers would say just about anything to move them, including that they're being EOL'd

neurotic

how much off sticker did you manage, if you don't mind me asking?

pokingaround

Not at all, though it's a little more complex than just that. Here's the deal I got for a still-new 2018 PTT ST:

-$182k MSRP
-$152k sale price ($30k off)
-dealer ate about $12k in negative equity on my trade (a Volvo lease)
-dealer ate $2500 in round trip shipping; ST to me, Volvo back to them

That's about $45k. I'm not sure how much corporate is compensating dealers on these (if at all) but there seems little doubt that the dealer lost money on this transaction. Plus:

-I avoided a looming $5k mileage overage penalty on the Volvo
-I avoided about $38xx in sales tax on the PTT owed to the portion ascribed to the trade in

So I saved/avoided about $54k on the transaction in total.

This was about a month+ ago. The crazy thing is that in all likelihood the car would still be sitting on their lot, and I could probably do even better today. Thing is, it was optioned almost exactly as I would've ordered in fantasy land so I pulled the trigger. No regrets.

neurotic

wow that's a hell of a deal. if I can get something close to 30K off a custom GTS ST, I'm all ears
otherwise, I'll go the CPO route.

CanuckGT4

Where does one find all these cars for sale online in one place? Porsche site forces you to search locally.

pokingaround

Thanks. It'd be interesting to see what a dealer would offer you on an order. I doubt $30k, especially if they have other ST's on their lot getting long in tooth. Not sure how many GTS ST's even made it to the US, but there are over 80 still-new Turbo STs sitting on lots. I'd use $40k off as a starting point for any 2018s optioned above $175k. They're all actively advertising at $25k-30k off, so for sure they can go lower. Unless you're dead set on NA engines, the Turbos may be worth a look. Among the 80 there must be one close to your spec.

There are also a lot of executive demos, and lightly used CPOs...

pokingaround

cargurus.com is one place. It's where I found mine...

jnolan

https://www.cars.com/for-sale/search...28880&zc=94061

You can negotiate a steep discount. Dealers are not stupid, they see the writing on the wall with so many 2018 cars unsold. There is no scenario where these cars suddenly see demand go up.

pokingaround

Completely agreed. There may always be those dealers hoping to find the customer that isn't in possession of this knowledge, but for the most part, from what I found in limited research (I sent emails to a handful of dealers) they're all being realistic.