rsyed

My SA was not very helpful when it came to figuring out what electrics likes you need to take advantage of the 7,2kW onboard charger. He (randomly) said you needed 400V and 32 Amp. I was disappointed as I only have 400V 16 amp in my garage. Nevertheless, I took the charger as an option as I thought it might come in handy when I am charging the car away from home. However, after ordering he car, I did some math and this is what I want to share with you:

To calculate how much time you need to charge your car, you need the following information:
1) voltage of your electricity supply
2) max current of your electricity supply
3) number of phases (1, 2 or 3)

To calculate the power:
For 1 or 2 phases:voltage x current
For 3 phase: voltage x current x 3^0,5

So in my case at home I have the following combination 400V/16amp/3phase:
400x16x1,732=11kWh

Depending on the charger you have in the car (3,6 or 7,2), and assuming 15% loss, the time needed to charge the car will be the battery size (14kWh) divided by either the charger value of your car or your electricity supply at home, whichever is lower (this translates to that even if your car has a 7,2kW charger, you can still connect it to a normal household socket and charge at a lower rate):

In my case 7,2 is lower is than 11 so I can take advantage of my charger in the car. Assuming a 20% loss in efficiency from charging, 7,2 becomes 5,8. So to charge a 14kWh battery, like we have in our cars, I will need 14/5,8= 2,4 hours. I can only confirm this number in 1 months when my car arrives :-)

Obviously any electrical engineer here is feel free to correct me if I just wrote some BS :-)

agaladari

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BertilDator

To continue on the topic of this good thread, I'm still bit confused: I have 7.2kW onboard charger. I also have single phase charger (1*240V*16A) as that was the max for my previous car.

I cannot increase the amps, but could upgrade to 3-phase charger. The question is, is the onboard charger able to utilize the 3 phases (3*240V*16A), so would I be able to charge with the full 7.2kW power?

Nvrfollow

Your ability to charge faster is affected by the onboard charger and the current you provide it via the cable you plug into your vehicle. The 7.2kW will charge faster if you have it plugged in a outlet with higher current source

BertilDator

Thank you. So the onboard charger of Panamera supports 3-phase charging with 3*230V*16A to reach maximum of 7.2kW charging? It is the 1-phase with 32A vs. 3-phase with 3*16A that puzzles me as my wall charger is now 1-phase (16A) but could be upgraded to 3-phase (3*16A).

orca15

I think your question is NOT really about the onboard car charger but about the EVSE (the thing between the wall and the car). For example, here is a 3 phase EVSE. So if you get one of those, you will increase the power going to the car, which will accept up to 7.2kW.

That may be what you are calling a wall charger, so yes, if you change the EVSE to put out more power, it should charge faster. You'd need to read the specs on your EVSE (wall charger).

The car charger just takes whatever comes through the plug, which is a clearly defined interface which I know nothing about since that is the job of the EVSE

BertilDator

Thanks, but no, my question is exactly and only about the onboard charger in the car: does it support 3-phase (3*230V*16A) charging to reach 7.2kW charging power?

16PanaHybrid

The answer to your question is yes. IF your Porsche is equipped with the optional 7.2kW onboard charger, you can absolutely use a 3-phase supply to charge the vehicle at the max rate.

If your Porsche has the standard 3.6kW onboard charger, you're capped at 3.6 regardless of single or three phase supply.

orca15

It might be three phase out of the wall, but if you have a J1772 plug like my car it is DEFINITELY not three phase at the car.

That was my whole point-the car doesn’t care about what the wall plug is. It gets what it gets (1 phase) at the J1772 plug and then is limited to 3.6 or 7.2 as he mentions.

16PanaHybrid

Yep, was just trying to simplify your already simple explanation

orca15

Let me be a little clearer. Now I am assuming your car comes with the J1772 (mode 2) plug. That could be wrong, in which case maybe the question you asked was OK. But if it is J1772:

There is some plug at the wall with some maximum power. In US it is 110-120V/15A or 220-240V/30 or 50A. I guess you have 230 1 phase 16A or 3 phase 16A. That gives you the FIRST maximum power - in my case, if I use the 120/15, I am already maxed out at 1.8kW.

Next is the EVSE. The whole point of this is to take the wall power and make it compatible with the car - both in voltage, amps, and phase. This can have a max as well that limits the flow. For example, mine plugs into a 220V/50A wall socket (possible 11kW) but will produce no more than 40A (8.8kW) at the car side plug.

Next is the onboard charger inside the car. Yet ONE MORE maximum. This does one thing -- takes the AC power at the plug and converts it to DC to charge the battery. Even though I can feed 8.8kW to my plug, the car has a 7.2kW onboard charger which NOW FURTHER LIMITS the power flow. If you bought a car with the 3.6kW onboard charger, this is exactly where it would limit things, even if you had the same wall plug, same EVSE, and same J1772 plug as me.

The EVSE that comes with the Porsche (US) --looks like a huge laptop brick-- had a changeable 120V wall plug and a 220V wall plug. If plugged in using the 120, MAX is already 1.8 - the onboard charger gets this and passes it along. If I physically swap the EVSE cable for the 22oV one and put it in a 30A plug, I can now get 6.6kW. It maxes out (I assume) about at the 7.2kW that the car does. This is where (I guess) people blow fuses- the EVSE tries to draw more than the breaker allows (which I suppose is yet one MORE max limit).

That's why I said the question is really about the EVSE being three phase, It puts out one phase to the car. And yes, there are 3 phase EVSE, as I linked. If your Porsche EVSE came with a three phase plug - use it.

Again, this is all assuming you guys get the car side J1772 plug. There may well be a EU 3 phase plug (car, not wall side) delivered with your cars but I have never heard that.

E39Nutz

And the whole point of owning a plug-in hybrid: you can still make it home without EV battery being charged. If one charges the vehicle at home overnight, who cares if it takes 3 hours or 6 hours, one will be sleeping anyway.

The only reason I see people needing a 7.2kw onboard charger is that they don’t have the luxury of charging at home and have to rely on public charging stations.

orca15

To each his own- my car has been out of the house three times today and charged in between each trip. A 3.6kW wouldn't likely have kept up. Plus there is a garage with free chargers a few places we go; it's just nice to get a full charge over dinner. Yes, it is only a buck or two of extra free power but I still like it. Maybe I don't "need" the 7.2, but that can be said for about everything on my Panny.

BertilDator

Agreed. My earlier car had 3.6 onboard charger and having 7.2 is much more convenient as even during a short stop you can charge relatively much. It's nice to have the battery reserve for extra power.

16PanaHybrid

Mine only has the 3.6kW onboard charger and I'm still able to manage multiple battery trips around town in a day when I charge with the wife's EVSE, which is connected to a dedicated 240v/60A circuit. I can charge my battery from 20% to 100% in about two hours that way for another 12-14 miles of range.

When I'm not in a hurry to charge I use my Porsche EVSE which is configured for 120v.