Audi quality
12-24-2011, 11:41 AM
#77
Burning Brakes
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A few randoms thoughts:
whenever a car company offers "Free scheduled Maintenance" you know they are going to bump out the maintenance intervals to save themselves money at the expense of the engine's lifespan at the higher end of the odometer. Have you ever seen the oil that comes out a "Free scheduled maintenance" BMW after 15,000 miles? I would never buy one used for this reason.
You need to make sure the car has had full synthetic it's entire life to prevent sludge. This may be difficult since dealerships rarely use synthetic for the "Free Maintenance" Audi/VW dealerships were still doing oil changes with dino oil when it was clear this was the cause of sludge failures in the 1.8T & 2.0T engines.
The benefit of CPO isn't the dealership inspection, it's the nationwide warranty bump to 6yr/100k miles or whatever. The dealership has to buy the CPO coverage at $1000+ per car for the nationwide warranty.
The weakest link of any European car is the OEM components. The build quality and ride of my old 89 Saab 900S '82 Audi 4000S Quattro, 98 A4Q and 2002 S4 were excellent. The achilles hill always seemed to be some expensive Bosch component stamped with a Audi/Saab part number and 300% markup.
I had a couple of minor issues with the Audi's but nothing major. I did sell both before 75k miles.
When these cars get up there in mileage and things start going wrong, it doesn't take long before you drop more into the car, than the car is actually worth.
whenever a car company offers "Free scheduled Maintenance" you know they are going to bump out the maintenance intervals to save themselves money at the expense of the engine's lifespan at the higher end of the odometer. Have you ever seen the oil that comes out a "Free scheduled maintenance" BMW after 15,000 miles? I would never buy one used for this reason.
You need to make sure the car has had full synthetic it's entire life to prevent sludge. This may be difficult since dealerships rarely use synthetic for the "Free Maintenance" Audi/VW dealerships were still doing oil changes with dino oil when it was clear this was the cause of sludge failures in the 1.8T & 2.0T engines.
The benefit of CPO isn't the dealership inspection, it's the nationwide warranty bump to 6yr/100k miles or whatever. The dealership has to buy the CPO coverage at $1000+ per car for the nationwide warranty.
The weakest link of any European car is the OEM components. The build quality and ride of my old 89 Saab 900S '82 Audi 4000S Quattro, 98 A4Q and 2002 S4 were excellent. The achilles hill always seemed to be some expensive Bosch component stamped with a Audi/Saab part number and 300% markup.
I had a couple of minor issues with the Audi's but nothing major. I did sell both before 75k miles.
When these cars get up there in mileage and things start going wrong, it doesn't take long before you drop more into the car, than the car is actually worth.
As a matter of fact, you can buy the oil in the dealerships -- I don't know if it is re-branded Mobil 1 or what, but it is full synthetic.
That's not to say a cheating dealer might try to substitute regular oil for the synthetic, however after 15-17,000 miles (the typical interval), there would be so many people with major issues the dealer would soon find themselves in a heap of trouble.
So don't let this stop you from buying a used BMW. My X5 has gotten full synthetic oil changes about every 15,000 miles for the past 11 years (now has 123k) and only burns one quart every 2500 miles, the same as when it was new.
12-24-2011, 11:49 AM
#78
Official Wednesday AM Red Bull F1 test driver
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I have Audi Care on the A8- I change my oil and filter in between the ones paid for by the contract. Even with Mobil 1 I'm not going that long, especially in the winter. Our M3 is (soon was) leased so I went with the standard service schedule even though I'd never let the oil stay in there that long if I owned the car.
The TTS replacement for the M3 also has Audi Care but I'll again do an extra oil change between the regularly scheduled ones. Got a lot of Mobil 1 sitting on the garage shelf...
The TTS replacement for the M3 also has Audi Care but I'll again do an extra oil change between the regularly scheduled ones. Got a lot of Mobil 1 sitting on the garage shelf...
12-24-2011, 11:50 AM
#79
Drifting
^^^
It was Audi/VW dealers who were using Dino oil early on before the 1.8T sludge problem was acknowledged. Definitely need synthetic oil for all these cars especially at these long intervals, but IMHO, 15k miles is 5k too much.
of course, but most likely wouldn't have happened on a used / off-lease example.
It was Audi/VW dealers who were using Dino oil early on before the 1.8T sludge problem was acknowledged. Definitely need synthetic oil for all these cars especially at these long intervals, but IMHO, 15k miles is 5k too much.
of course, but most likely wouldn't have happened on a used / off-lease example.
12-24-2011, 11:55 AM
#80
Dean of Rennlist, "I'm Listening"
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Somehow missed this thread...
Didn't read through the entire thread, but having said that...
I'm actually sort of an "Audi guy." Over maybe the last +/- 20 years, an Audi has always been my daily driver - starting with an Audi 5000, then an Audi V8, then two consecutive A4's, and now an A6.
I've always thought Audis were good-looking cars in a classy, handsome sense. And their interiors are unsurpassed - beautiful (not busy or garish) with superb ergonomics.
The ride and handling can be described as "active" and "responsive" without being harsh. To me, it's the perfect blend or balance of handling and comfort.
The ones I've owned certainly haven't been speed freaks - but that's why I've had a Porsche or a Mercedes SL 55 AMG. Having said that, the performance of my Audis has certainly been satisfactory for a daily driver.
And the Audi Quattro AWD system simply cannot be beat in the snow. I've had 4x4 trucks and SUV's, and they didn't handle snow anywhere close to an Audi.
Now for the bad part...
In the past, I had considerable reliability issues with my first two Audis. The 5000 and the V8 were simply in the shop too often. But starting with the A4's and now the A6 (2006), I've had no reliability issues with any Audi. I had a single battery/electronic issue with my current A6, but that was fixed under warranty - and otherwise it's been bullet proof.
Bottom line: My next DD will also be an Audi.
Hope that helps.
Didn't read through the entire thread, but having said that...
I'm actually sort of an "Audi guy." Over maybe the last +/- 20 years, an Audi has always been my daily driver - starting with an Audi 5000, then an Audi V8, then two consecutive A4's, and now an A6.
I've always thought Audis were good-looking cars in a classy, handsome sense. And their interiors are unsurpassed - beautiful (not busy or garish) with superb ergonomics.
The ride and handling can be described as "active" and "responsive" without being harsh. To me, it's the perfect blend or balance of handling and comfort.
The ones I've owned certainly haven't been speed freaks - but that's why I've had a Porsche or a Mercedes SL 55 AMG. Having said that, the performance of my Audis has certainly been satisfactory for a daily driver.
And the Audi Quattro AWD system simply cannot be beat in the snow. I've had 4x4 trucks and SUV's, and they didn't handle snow anywhere close to an Audi.
Now for the bad part...
In the past, I had considerable reliability issues with my first two Audis. The 5000 and the V8 were simply in the shop too often. But starting with the A4's and now the A6 (2006), I've had no reliability issues with any Audi. I had a single battery/electronic issue with my current A6, but that was fixed under warranty - and otherwise it's been bullet proof.
Bottom line: My next DD will also be an Audi.
Hope that helps.
12-24-2011, 12:02 PM
#82
Dean of Rennlist, "I'm Listening"
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12-24-2011, 01:21 PM
#83
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BMW dealers are mandated by BMW to use synthetic oil. It is the only oil approved for use in BMW engines.
As a matter of fact, you can buy the oil in the dealerships -- I don't know if it is re-branded Mobil 1 or what, but it is full synthetic.
That's not to say a cheating dealer might try to substitute regular oil for the synthetic, however after 15-17,000 miles (the typical interval), there would be so many people with major issues the dealer would soon find themselves in a heap of trouble.
So don't let this stop you from buying a used BMW. My X5 has gotten full synthetic oil changes about every 15,000 miles for the past 11 years (now has 123k) and only burns one quart every 2500 miles, the same as when it was new.
As a matter of fact, you can buy the oil in the dealerships -- I don't know if it is re-branded Mobil 1 or what, but it is full synthetic.
That's not to say a cheating dealer might try to substitute regular oil for the synthetic, however after 15-17,000 miles (the typical interval), there would be so many people with major issues the dealer would soon find themselves in a heap of trouble.
So don't let this stop you from buying a used BMW. My X5 has gotten full synthetic oil changes about every 15,000 miles for the past 11 years (now has 123k) and only burns one quart every 2500 miles, the same as when it was new.
12-24-2011, 01:56 PM
#84
Nordschleife Master
I love the new Audi styling but reliability has me concerned as well. I have had some friends that have had some S4's, A6's, and A8s and they were pretty much horror stories to listen too. Reminded me of our BMW experience we had (never own another one). Plus the BMW had to much plastic in the engine compartment for my comfort--even drive pulleys were plastic.
I'm curious all you guys claiming to get over 200k out of these cars is that on the original engine and transmission? What kind of fluid change intervals are you doing? Definitely not calling you guys liars at all just have some very intelligent mechanic friends that have had opposite experiences.
I'm curious all you guys claiming to get over 200k out of these cars is that on the original engine and transmission? What kind of fluid change intervals are you doing? Definitely not calling you guys liars at all just have some very intelligent mechanic friends that have had opposite experiences.
12-24-2011, 01:59 PM
#85
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12-24-2011, 02:23 PM
#86
Feral Cat
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I would still be reluctant to buy any used BMW since I doubt most BMW owners/lessees are as compulsive as you are!
12-24-2011, 03:39 PM
#87
PS belt roller broke off, bad cam seals = drip oil onto exhaust, sport suspension control arms replaced 3x, brake caliper froze, etc etc.
Great car to drive. Better car to own with a warranty.
Jon
12-24-2011, 04:06 PM
#88
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Mobil1 0-40 every 3k when I had a short commute, then every 5k when I had a long commute. I chipped my '00 S4 when it had 500 miles, put a different exhaust to let it breathe. Original turbos going strong at 138k. I had a few repairs before 50k,, like power steering lines and ABS pump. No problems after that.
12-24-2011, 06:52 PM
#89
Burning Brakes
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The BMW oil is specially formulated by BMW and brewed by Castrol. Tischer BMW sells an E90 oil change "kit" with 7 quarts and an oil filter and gaskets for $69, delivered to your door and tax-free. That seems to be about list price but it's heavy and saves a trip to the dealer. BMW's oil is more expensive than the jugs of Mobil-1 at WalMart but not that much more expensive.
I would still be reluctant to buy any used BMW since I doubt most BMW owners/lessees are as compulsive as you are!
I would still be reluctant to buy any used BMW since I doubt most BMW owners/lessees are as compulsive as you are!
