zanwar

I don't care if the car is powered by 6 cylinders, 4 cylinders, or monkeys with elastic bands. I care about the performance.

GHills

Winner, most asinine topic headline on rennlist.

alexb76

You guys are all missing the point, 30mpg is achievable today with 4-cyl turbo, when we get to 40mpg and then 50mpg, something's gotto give! and note that it applies to ALL car makers across ALL brands... so Porsche, Ferrari, Aston, Lotus, Lamroghini range HAS TO be 40mpg and then 50mpg on average... now you tell me if that's not gonna limit the options offered to consumers?!

In Europe you CAN get a huge range of engines, and the choice is there! I absolutely welcome more choices and if I wanted to add a 2nd car to my 997, would probably get a 2.0T Audi or TDI as no BMW was available with such options... however, if I was in the market in 3-4 yrs for a performance Sedan and my choices were limited by government, I don't think that's such a great thing.

I don't think mpg standard has ANYTHING to do with seatblets, airbags, etc... which are safety equipment.

alexb76

Most idiotic response on rennlist

Fahrer

In 1978 the VW Golf ( Rabbit) got about 25 mpg overall and weighed about 2000 lbs. It had 71 hp from 1.5L. The car did 0-60 in about 10 seconds. It had no power windows maybe a 3 speed auto ( with lower mpg), maybe A/C, no power steering, no radio.

Today that car weighs about 3,100 lbs., comes with p/s, A/C, p/w, galvanized steel, airbags, stereo as good as aftermarket in the 70s. It has a 170 hp engine and goes from 0- 60 in something like 8.5 seconds. It is roomier, much safer, handles better and gets at least as good mpg. VW is coming out with 1.4L engines that produce close to 200 hp. I use VW as an example but there are all types of technologies available out there and what the auto companies and their suppliers are working on is how to make those techniques cheaper. I am not pessimistic at all about this situation.

KBS911

Granted there have been many positive developments, especially in safety, as you have indicated, but performance is more market driven. Bureaucrats would love nothing more than to regulate performance. Do you really need a car that will go 190 mph. I think not. To paraphrase your post, I wonder how many have been killed because they can't control the incredible performance of some of today's automobiles. Perhaps the answer is in regulating speeds to a maximum of 60mph. Yeah...that would be a great regulation.

KBS911

Here is a perfect example of legislation making our driving experience better. Can't wait to break loose on a weekend morning drive, sit back, relax, have a cup of coffee, and google the latest rennlist postings. Yeah, thats an engaging experience...at least I'll be safe....:


LegislationThe Nevada Legislature passed a law in June 2011 to authorized the use of autonomous vehicles. Nevada became the first jurisdiction in the world where driverless vehicles can be legally operated on public roads. The bill was signed into law by Nevada's Governor on June 16, 2011. According to the law, the Nevada Department of Transportation (NDOT) is now responsible for setting safety and performance standards and the agency is responsible for designating areas where driverless cars may be tested.[7][8][33] This legislation was lobbied by Google in an effort to legally conduct further testing of its Google driverless car.[9]


The law, introduced in March 2011 as bill AB511, defines an autonomous vehicle "to mean a motor vehicle that uses artificial intelligence, sensors and global positioning system coordinates to drive itself without the active intervention of a human operator." The law also acknowledges that the operator will not need to pay attention while the car is operating itself. Another bill in the legislature will allow drivers to text if the car is driving itself.[34][35]

Mike in CA

To put what I've already said another way, you can cite specific examples of bad regulations all day, but that still doesn't mean all regulation has been bad. The comment you made that I was responding to was an unqualified "legislation through regulation is not a good thing". My point was that sometimes it isn't, but sometimes it is.

Fahrer

First, the US government determines acceptable vehicle designs for the US, not the states. Driverless vehicles may be permitted in Nevada but unless the US government allows that design, manufacturers will not be able to sell them in Nevada ora any other state. It sounds like that law was established to allow automated trams to operate at airports, etc. or allow some sort of testng to be legal. Otherwise, ignore it.

Optical TDI

Agreed as long as it's a flat 4 which still has nice sounds vs. an inline/straight 4.

KBS911

I apologize for my lack of qualification. Indeed , not all legislation is "bad". To further qualify my previous comment, I believe that sometimes legislation for our own good, as determined by those that in their infinite wisdom know whats best for us, is not "always" a good thing, and sometimes driven by special interests.

We live in a golden age of automobiles where the performance of a soccer mom's SUV can rival that of an old muscle car. I would hate to see an enthusiasts perspective legislated out of the existence, and there are certainly some that would wish to do so.

Fahrer

Porsche did make great sounding flat 4s years ago. Also, considering they were pushrod engines, the VW aircooled engine also did not sound too bad. The flat 4s from Subaru, however, sound like tractor engines...... horrible.

phaphaphooey

So true. Even though those specific politicians that are so in favor of governmental oversight (won't name any parties here) claim that Americans want better fuel economy more than anything, they are likely sorely disappointed that after fuel prices come back down from a spike, trucks and suvs again make up a large part of the top 10 most sold vehicles. While fuel economy increases sound great on paper and Europe is often cited as a shining example, the average American is not willing to live with the changes that are required to achieve such results (small cars with manual transmissions and fairly anemic diesel engines).

On a somewhat related tangent, don't even get me started on how hard the ethanol lobby is bending all of us over in the U.S. as well.

Mike in CA

I most definitely agree.

KBS911

Subaru is getting 300hp out of a flat 4, no reason Porsche can't do the same. A 300 hp 4 cylinder turbo flat four in a much lighter car, like a Boxster or Cayman would be pretty incredible.