fincher

From NY Times:
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/02/06...rd-to-get.html

perlfather

I'm hoping/expecting the Macan diesel to arrive at the end of the year. Based on our TDI engine in a Audi A7 this would be a terrific combination for mostly sub-urban and a bit of highway driving. People and magazines in Europe seem to rave about the diesel option in the Macan. Let's hope that Porsche brings this to the US as they have stated last year.

Rubik

Diesel is really a good idea if you're looking for good low end torque combined with good fuel economy. But you won't see it in true to the roots sports cars. For example there will never be a 911 diesel. So, yes I'd definitely be more inclined to buy a diesel in situations where I need the fuel economy or towing power but for true spirited driving I won't opt for it. If the Macan S was't turbo, it would not have as good of a low end torque than what it has currently but considering that it's got turbos and its intended to be more of a sports car vs a boat hauler, gas is the way to go for the Macan....in my book anyway. Some will disagree.

fincher

Amen. I love my TDI Touareg. I would buy a sports car if I wanted a sports car. The Macan is a sporty SUV. Looking forward to the diesel!

roule

"sporty" and "diesel" do not belong in the same sentence.

The increased weight and cost of a diesel engine, combined with inferior peak power output, make it unsuitable for any sporty driving. The PDK nullifies any torque advantage a diesel engine would offer off the line.

Economically, unless you have special circumstances, it makes no sense here either. In the USA, since the price of diesel fuel is inflated, the increased economy of diesel is offset.

Environmentally, it's too complicated to even compare well, but as fuels are made cleaner, it's about a wash, with diesel kicking out relatively more more particulates and gasoline kicking out more CO2 per mile.

So there you go, there is simply no compelling reason to buy a diesel for a sports car in the USA.

If you already own a TDI Toureg, then hook up a heavy trailer and enjoy the heck out of it. The one thing that diesel generally does do relatively better than gas engines is engine durability.

fincher

roule, let's agree to disagree. To me, the Macan is not a sports car. The diesel powertrain is ideally suited for the Macan. It will sell well here just as the Cayenne diesel does well here. That's all.

Buckfever

Yeah gas is comparatively cheap here so unless that changes I don't see the "Americans" stance changing. For me 8 years later and 212K on my v8 4runner, I've bled gas. I think it makes sense for me as I want the Porsche as a daily driver, but even so in my case I'd prefer the gas engine. Hell I'd like a 14 GTS Cayenne get one of those last V8s.

I'm sure they'll be initial interest in the Macan Diesel, as to how robust I think it depends on how they slot the pricing and whether gas pricing stays depressed.

roule

I'm happy to disagree, as long as you recognize that diesel simply doesn't sell well in the USA for all the reasons I mentioned. Things are different here than they are in Europe.

You said "Sports SUV" above. So spelling that all out, that's a Sports Sports Utility Vehicle". I guess in your mind that's significantly different than a sports car, despite the fact that everyone here seems convinced that the Macan is lower and less towing-oriented than any other ute and is obviously designed to embarrass most sports cars on the road. Until you put in a diesel drivetrain, that is. Then other sports sedans and wagons will easily keep up.

fincher

roule, I wrote ‘sporty SUV’ not ‘Sports SUV.’ To me, it is sporty but certainly not a sports car. As for towing, etc., I do not tow anything though I do use my hitch for a bike rack. I definitely did not mention towing at all in *any* of my posts. If I really had something to tow, I wouldn’t even consider the Macan.

Seems to me, you just wanted to take a shot at the upcoming diesel, which is exactly why I posted the article. Gas being relatively cheap here does make diesel a tougher sell, that along with how diesel here flopped in the late 70s. It’s a good article and I posted to open a discussion.

As for the other items, that is where we diverge. Diesel burns cleaner than gas specifically due to the urea required. Peak power is lousy if you want to drive 80+. As a daily driver, it is the low-end torque that makes the diesel fun, whether in traffic or passing on the highway.

I drive 20k yearly with 75-80% highway. I get fuel every 10-12 days. My Touareg has the same diesel engine as the Cayenne and Q7 diesels, though the Cayenne is tuned differently. For me, diesel makes sense and I why I am waiting for it. If I retire, then I would go for the S model as I will not be logging nearly as much highway miles.

John Welch.

I thought Audi did "ok" with a diesel... ;-)

The Audi R10 TDI, usually abbreviated to R10, is a racing car from the German car manufacturer Audi. The car is a classic at Le Mans, winning every year since its introduction until it was replaced by the R15

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_R10_TDI

PCA1983

Diesel is pricey in many states, due to high taxes as well as other seasonal factors, so this is also a factor in the lack of popularity in the USA.

fincher

It is a major factor. Here diesel is relatively flat year-round. Gas typically is high here (Chicago area) in spring/summer. Break-even on the premium paid for a diesel over gas model takes about 3 years. I figure the diesel Macan will be about a $3k premium over the S model.

Anyway, this is good banter.

chsu74

I would never own a diesel living in IL. Diesels there contain 15% biodiesel and kills these German power plants. Surf the Mercedes and BMW forums for more info.

fincher

MB stopped selling diesels here because of bio. I rarely use bio as there are several places near me with ULSD. I've has zero issues over 59k miles. Porsche made the service interval every 5k for the Cayenne diesel because of the bio use in Illinois. I still service every 10k per VW specs.

Does bio-diesel deter me? Nope.

Buckfever

It would have to be a more robust diesel than what has been offered so far for me to pay a premium over the S. With the Cayenne the diesel is a premium over the base not the S. It shifts the value equation for me.