Is PASM bulletproof?
#31
To be honest I thought all cars with pasm came with the air but I'll check on that and come back. The ones I tested all had the air so it didn't strike me at the time that pasm was available without the air. But so far as the steels go i found while they seemed "good enough" there was something more sophisticated about the general feel of the pasm/air car that gave it a more resolved feeling in general. 10,000 on and there is no question that the pasm/air car is way way more resolved on all types of surfaces than the steels regardless of what setting you are in (comfort inc). I would also agree that in sports plus without pasm/air the car is not nearly as sharp and connected as the one with and I would be surprised to hear anyone dispute that after driving the two. I found the steels were a good allrounder and a job well done by Porsche but in comparison up against the adjustable suspension with ride height changing capability the steels didn't match up. A bit like a jack of all trades but master of none vs the adjustable with air that could be tailored to the job at hand in a far more superior and effective manner.
#32
To be honest I thought all cars with pasm came with the air but I'll check on that and come back. The ones I tested all had the air so it didn't strike me at the time that pasm was available without the air. But so far as the steels go i found while they seemed "good enough" there was something more sophisticated about the general feel of the pasm/air car that gave it a more resolved feeling in general. 10,000 on and there is no question that the pasm/air car is way way more resolved on all types of surfaces than the steels regardless of what setting you are in (comfort inc). I would also agree that in sports plus without pasm/air the car is not nearly as sharp and connected as the one with and I would be surprised to hear anyone dispute that after driving the two. I found the steels were a good allrounder and a job well done by Porsche but in comparison up against the adjustable suspension with ride height changing capability the steels didn't match up. A bit like a jack of all trades but master of none vs the adjustable with air that could be tailored to the job at hand in a far more superior and effective manner.
#33
No, the steel sprung cars I drove did not have adjustable settings... just the one setting. As I said it felt good enough at the time and maybe gave the false impression to the tester that it was not worth spending the extra on the pasm/air but miles will sort that decision out no question about that. I have found that even with the car in comfort in mid height (which is the basic height of the steel sprung car) it still felt more secure executing a fast bend than the steel sprung car.
#34
Ok just checked. Macan is available with the pasm but without air. Also avail with pasm and air. So either would definitely be worthy set ups. Basic non adjustable hydraulic is available too i'm told. That said I still would maintain having the ability to lower the centre of gravity in sports would make the air option worth it for sure. Plus the ride of the air has a slightly more sophisticated feel I'm told....which i am sure would become increasingly more evident during the course of ownership.
#35
Buck, your not the same Buck on Mountain Monsters on Discovery are you? That guy is cool!
I think I may have the solution for you MAYBE. It depends on what you think is dedicated off road car is.
I think it means being able to travel over the snow covered hwy. But I had to get winter tires for my X5 4.8iS it had hi performance Michelins on it that were like $8,000 a piece or something like that. I had to spend a bazillion dollars on winters. But after that,
I found Continental Extreme Contact DWS. DWS stands for Dry Wet Snow. In the 315 20" I needed and so I have been using that tire. It was like $235 for the rear 315s and less for the fronts.
I dont know if that would work for you but check it out. It made life MUCH simpler.
I think I may have the solution for you MAYBE. It depends on what you think is dedicated off road car is.
I think it means being able to travel over the snow covered hwy. But I had to get winter tires for my X5 4.8iS it had hi performance Michelins on it that were like $8,000 a piece or something like that. I had to spend a bazillion dollars on winters. But after that,
I found Continental Extreme Contact DWS. DWS stands for Dry Wet Snow. In the 315 20" I needed and so I have been using that tire. It was like $235 for the rear 315s and less for the fronts.
I dont know if that would work for you but check it out. It made life MUCH simpler.
#36
Ok just checked. Macan is available with the pasm but without air. Also avail with pasm and air. So either would definitely be worthy set ups. Basic non adjustable hydraulic is available too i'm told. That said I still would maintain having the ability to lower the centre of gravity in sports would make the air option worth it for sure. Plus the ride of the air has a slightly more sophisticated feel I'm told....which i am sure would become increasingly more evident during the course of ownership.
It sounds like you compared AS with PASM to steel springs without PASM, which is not a true comparison of AS vs steel springs.
#37
@speed21... I agree with you that AS does give a vehicle a sophisticated feel. My personal tastes run contrary to this cossetted ride, however. Sometimes, you just want to wear Jeans. A Tux just ruins the evening.. But then again I am a simple man. My snootiness is limited to the Burmester sound system
FWIW, I do look forward to trying the AS in the Macan.
Last edited by rpilot; 05-21-2014 at 11:59 PM.
#39
Buck, your not the same Buck on Mountain Monsters on Discovery are you? That guy is cool!
I think I may have the solution for you MAYBE. It depends on what you think is dedicated off road car is.
I think it means being able to travel over the snow covered hwy. But I had to get winter tires for my X5 4.8iS it had hi performance Michelins on it that were like $8,000 a piece or something like that. I had to spend a bazillion dollars on winters. But after that,
I found Continental Extreme Contact DWS. DWS stands for Dry Wet Snow. In the 315 20" I needed and so I have been using that tire. It was like $235 for the rear 315s and less for the fronts.
I dont know if that would work for you but check it out. It made life MUCH simpler.
I think I may have the solution for you MAYBE. It depends on what you think is dedicated off road car is.
I think it means being able to travel over the snow covered hwy. But I had to get winter tires for my X5 4.8iS it had hi performance Michelins on it that were like $8,000 a piece or something like that. I had to spend a bazillion dollars on winters. But after that,
I found Continental Extreme Contact DWS. DWS stands for Dry Wet Snow. In the 315 20" I needed and so I have been using that tire. It was like $235 for the rear 315s and less for the fronts.
I dont know if that would work for you but check it out. It made life MUCH simpler.
#40
I think that's what remains. Comparing the analog feel of the steel springs with PASM to the lower COG of the AS. I have a request for just such a comparison but the availability is not there yet.
#42
Yes. PASM is only the shock absorbers. The variable sway bars are PDCC in general, but from little information I could gather, it is possible the Air suspension is using air filled sway bars instead of standard ones (But I am not 100% sure about this) thereby serving as the functional equivalent of PDCC. (PDCC is not available on the Macan)
#43
Thanks. Just to clarify this issue: PASM has been around for longer than air suspensions. PASM dynamically manages the firmness of the struts/shock absorbers and has at least 2 settings to do this: normal and firm (or normal and sport, or comfort and sport, etc.) This suspension management is all independent of whether the suspension system is steel springs or air bellows. So you can order normal steel suspension with or without PASM, or you can order AS with or without PASM.
It sounds like you compared AS with PASM to steel springs without PASM, which is not a true comparison of AS vs steel springs.
It sounds like you compared AS with PASM to steel springs without PASM, which is not a true comparison of AS vs steel springs.
#44
Yes. PASM is only the shock absorbers. The variable sway bars are PDCC in general, but from little information I could gather, it is possible the Air suspension is using air filled sway bars instead of standard ones (But I am not 100% sure about this) thereby serving as the functional equivalent of PDCC. (PDCC is not available on the Macan)
Trelleborg said: “To reduce unsprung masses the airsprings at the five-link front axle are designed with high aluminium content and as a lightweight construction with plastic at the trapezoidal-link rear axle. After a development time of just two-and-a-half years, the result is best-in-class handling with excellent comfort, regardless of loading conditions.”
Back
Detail
The air springs are matched with an electronically-controlled damping system. The design of the mounts and the wall thicknesses of the spring sleeves are optimized for minimum friction and hysteresis, delivering further improvements in ride comfort.
#45