speed21

To be honest I thought all cars with pasm came with the air but I'll check on that and come back. The ones I tested all had the air so it didn't strike me at the time that pasm was available without the air. But so far as the steels go i found while they seemed "good enough" there was something more sophisticated about the general feel of the pasm/air car that gave it a more resolved feeling in general. 10,000 on and there is no question that the pasm/air car is way way more resolved on all types of surfaces than the steels regardless of what setting you are in (comfort inc). I would also agree that in sports plus without pasm/air the car is not nearly as sharp and connected as the one with and I would be surprised to hear anyone dispute that after driving the two. I found the steels were a good allrounder and a job well done by Porsche but in comparison up against the adjustable suspension with ride height changing capability the steels didn't match up. A bit like a jack of all trades but master of none vs the adjustable with air that could be tailored to the job at hand in a far more superior and effective manner.

KeninBlaine

I'm still not clear on this. I understand you drove cars with air and PASM, but am still not clear if the steel sprung cars you compared them with had PASM. PASM works well on steel sprung cars as well as on air suspensions. I guess AS would add something because of its self-leveling feature, although I don't know if that works as dynamically quickly/effectively as PASM does.

speed21

No, the steel sprung cars I drove did not have adjustable settings... just the one setting. As I said it felt good enough at the time and maybe gave the false impression to the tester that it was not worth spending the extra on the pasm/air but miles will sort that decision out no question about that. I have found that even with the car in comfort in mid height (which is the basic height of the steel sprung car) it still felt more secure executing a fast bend than the steel sprung car.

speed21

Ok just checked. Macan is available with the pasm but without air. Also avail with pasm and air. So either would definitely be worthy set ups. Basic non adjustable hydraulic is available too i'm told. That said I still would maintain having the ability to lower the centre of gravity in sports would make the air option worth it for sure. Plus the ride of the air has a slightly more sophisticated feel I'm told....which i am sure would become increasingly more evident during the course of ownership.

OldGuy

Buck, your not the same Buck on Mountain Monsters on Discovery are you? That guy is cool!
I think I may have the solution for you MAYBE. It depends on what you think is dedicated off road car is.
I think it means being able to travel over the snow covered hwy. But I had to get winter tires for my X5 4.8iS it had hi performance Michelins on it that were like $8,000 a piece or something like that. I had to spend a bazillion dollars on winters. But after that,
I found Continental Extreme Contact DWS. DWS stands for Dry Wet Snow. In the 315 20" I needed and so I have been using that tire. It was like $235 for the rear 315s and less for the fronts.
I dont know if that would work for you but check it out. It made life MUCH simpler.

KeninBlaine

Thanks. Just to clarify this issue: PASM has been around for longer than air suspensions. PASM dynamically manages the firmness of the struts/shock absorbers and has at least 2 settings to do this: normal and firm (or normal and sport, or comfort and sport, etc.) This suspension management is all independent of whether the suspension system is steel springs or air bellows. So you can order normal steel suspension with or without PASM, or you can order AS with or without PASM.

It sounds like you compared AS with PASM to steel springs without PASM, which is not a true comparison of AS vs steel springs.

rpilot

+1

@speed21... I agree with you that AS does give a vehicle a sophisticated feel. My personal tastes run contrary to this cossetted ride, however. Sometimes, you just want to wear Jeans. A Tux just ruins the evening.. But then again I am a simple man. My snootiness is limited to the Burmester sound system

FWIW, I do look forward to trying the AS in the Macan.

rpilot

Amazing.

Buckfever

Not the same Buck.

Buckfever

I think that's what remains. Comparing the analog feel of the steel springs with PASM to the lower COG of the AS. I have a request for just such a comparison but the availability is not there yet.

PCA1983

My recollection is PASM adjusts the stiffness of the anti sway bars as well as the stiffness of the shock absorbers. Am I wrong on this ?

rpilot

Yes. PASM is only the shock absorbers. The variable sway bars are PDCC in general, but from little information I could gather, it is possible the Air suspension is using air filled sway bars instead of standard ones (But I am not 100% sure about this) thereby serving as the functional equivalent of PDCC. (PDCC is not available on the Macan)

sebis

Sorry but that is wrong on the Macan and the Cayenne as well, you can only order AS with PASM.

sebis

Here is a more info on the AS setup:

Front



Back



Detail

KeninBlaine

Good catch. Thanks. But my main point was comparing a car with AS/PASM with a car with steel springs without PASM.